Enlightenment: From Siphoning to Assimilation

By Bronte Baxter

The world’s religions have changed from their ancient demands for blood sacrifice to their modern insistence on a more personal commitment to the divine. Blood provided life-force renewal to the interdimensional predators who call themselves the gods. But blood-on-demand is nothing in “loosh quality” compared to willing, devoted worship. Robert Monroe was told as much in his encounter with the light being (see my two last articles).

Yet there is another, more insidious reason why the ancient religions, which taught fear of God, have morphed into modern religions and spiritual practices that teach surrender or love of God. The reason concerns free will. If that deeply human element can be won over, if the heart and ability to choose can be wholly offered to “the divine,” those on the receiving end no longer have to siphon humans for their energy, they can simply assimilate us. We become one with their system, with their collective consciousness. Our personal energy signature – the soul or ego, individual self– that which makes us creative, original, reasoned, deliberate beings of action – that is taken from us. Or more precisely, we give it away.

We give ourselves to “the divine,” and in so doing, align our personal frequency with those who have fed on humans since the dawn of history. We become entrained with them, like a tuning fork that hums the pitch of the humming forks around it or a soldier that marches in step with his army. As in the military, the surrender of personal choice results in a strengthening of the collective. Soldiers fall out of step when they cross a bridge, because the power of marching in unison is great enough that it could break the structure. Assimilation strengthens the collective that is the gods.

If the “Star Trek” image of The Borg comes to mind, the parallel is not inappropriate. The Borg in the sci-fi TV series were a civilization of beings half biological and half cyber. Like a hive, they were ruled by a central queen, whose will ran the collective. They thrived by discovering new planets and assimilating their inhabitants. Assimilation was accomplished by mind-controlling a person and then inserting, in place of the individual’s mind, the mind of The Borg. The victim’s will became the will of The Borg, his actions entrained, like an ant’s, to work for the collective’s purpose.

Cosmic consciousness is not what we are told: a state where the individual mind merges with its own interior pure consciousness. Cosmic consciousness (“enlightenment” or “Brahman”) is a fusing of one’s personal self with the force that has hijacked the universe.

We can reason that the Infinite Source of all the egos in the universe must be an unlimited consciousness of love, life, joy, creativity and immortality. It knows no destruction or death, either for Itself or its children. Why would a self-fulfilled, joyous being want to make individuals that don’t share in and express Its own qualities?

Brahman is quite different than this original entity. Brahman is the consciousness that enfolds the physical universe, spitting out supernovas and destroying them with all their attendant life forms. We are told Brahman is the creator, the maintainer, and the destroyer. Brahman is that consciousness that feeds and depends on physical matter, creating and devouring it at will, as humans breed then slaughter animals on a farm for food. When meditators have cosmic visions of themselves as all the universe, this is the consciousness they identify with. By uniting with and surrendering to it as their Higher Self, they become possessed by the entities who have taken charge of (and perhaps created) the physical universe.

I remember a chilling moment in a videotape of the popular spiritual teacher, Eckhart Tolle, where he describes the movement of the”Presence” in the world. He reaches out a long arm and makes a swooshing sound with his mouth, drawing the arm back in. Then he makes a swipe in the air with his other arm, then the first one again. That’s Consciousness, he tells us, creating then sucking back in life form after life form. That is what Tolle has aligned himself with, the Presence that creates and destroys individual life.

A loving and unlimited creator of individual awareness would not create life forms only to destroy them. That is the act of a farmer, not of an artist or innovator. Creative people don’t make things in order to feed off their creations. They make things to express what’s inside them: the joy or beauty or humor or wisdom. We know this from our own life experience.

Happy people create good things around them, and cherish and take care of those things. They don’t decide to blow them up or devour them. If we as humans naturally behave like that, how could the Infinite Being from whose cloth we were cut, think and behave like a savage? How could It be unfeeling or uncaring, when we by nature are feeling and caring? How could the children be greater in character than their own Creator? It’s not a very reasonable premise.

It cannot be God, in the sense of a supreme consciousness, that requires sacrifice, worship, surrender of ego and ultimate physical death. That can only be the agenda of limited spiritual beings, who see the manifest universe as their playground. They are the playground bullies. They have convinced everyone that they by rights run the show and that they even created the show.

I remember Tolle’s story of his “awakening.” After suffering for years from severe depression, he decided he would commit suicide, at which point he felt an energy vortex sucking him in and heard the words “Resist nothing.” He blacked out and when he awoke, the world was fresh and new. He was a man without depression, without desires, without thoughts. He was a clean machine, devoid of his former sense of personal self. From that day on, he has moved through physical reality without an ego. “Life” moves through him, he says, and he identities that “wholeness” as his Self.

But Tolle’s wholeness is a small particle in the vastness of the Infinite. It is not the Infinite, however much he believes it must be. Brahman is not Infinite; it is the collective consciousness of the material universe, which embraces good and evil, birth and death, as equal in value. The consciousness of the Infinite surely never intended suffering or death for its children.

Tolle, like the enlightened guru-followers, has accepted all that happens in this world, horrendousness included, as the wonderful will of the divine. He regards what happened to him the night of his transformation as an awakening to the highest truth. I suggest what he awoke to was assimilation of his will, his personhood, all that made him uniquely human. He became a vessel for the voice that told him, “Resist nothing” – words that eerily echo the voice of The Borg, telling its victims the moment before assimilation: “Resistance is futile.”

Brahman, what Tolle calls “Presence,” does bring euphoric peace to the experiencer. The grave is peaceful, too, but I wouldn’t want to spend time in one. There is peace when an individual surrenders their personal self. Gone is the responsibility of making choices, of finding motivation, of coming up with creative solutions. Gone is the need to think and the sting of emotional repercussions from former bad decisions. The enlightened need to do nothing, say nothing, become nothing. But to achieve that iced-over state of detachment, that cosmic disassociation, they must sacrifice the most precious thing they have ever been given: their personal divine spark. The enlightened willfully self-implode. And God’s very purpose for making them, as a unique, personal expression of Itself, gets subverted.

Surely we were meant to be more than automatons, possessed zombies, walking around the earth while something else moves through us. Surely God’s plan was not for Its creatures to become mindless robots, with glassy grins and empty hearts, who regard suffering and happiness, death and life, as all the same in value. Surely there is something beyond what the gurus teach as the ultimate, Something that celebrates, supports and cherishes each being It ever created, that desires them to live forever and in harmony and joy, as Itself lives.

The gods have not stopped living off human sacrifice. The rules of the game have only changed a little. Blood-on-demand is not as delicious as the willing offering of a human soul. Siphoning is evolving into assimilation. This is the tyranny of One, the reason the New Age teaches that awakened consciousness means seeing “small self” as illusion and “Cosmic Self” or “the One,” as the true reality. The intent is to fuse all egos into the will of the One, the will of the Overmind.

The gods are masquerading as Cosmic Self. We either open our minds and recognize our programming, and reason our way out of this snare, or we grin like foolish children and follow the Pied Piper right into the maw of the mountain. Will we choose to amalgamate or to shoulder the burden and joy of becoming conscious, empowered individuals? The fate of the universe rests on our decision.

Bronte Baxter

© Bronte Baxter 2008

Anyone may republish this article on another website as long as they include the copyright and a back link to this site.

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106 Comments

  1. Jim Porter said,

    May 30, 2008 at 11:17 pm

    Hi Bronte,

    I wonder if your fascinating essays – and I have found each and every one fascinating – are a culmination of years of work into spiritualism and/or to do with a spiritual awakening of some kind. Have you had any defining spiritual moments in your life (excuse me if you’ve already dealt with this elsewhere)?

    I was very interested to read more about Eckhart Tolle, a man whose name has been mentioned to me recently. I looked him up again after reading your post and found this interview with him to be quite revealing: http://www.inner-growth.info/power_of_now_tolle/eckhart_tolle_interview_parker.htm

    I get the impression that Tolle may have suffered from loneliness as a child, and that that loneliness was carried into adulthood, by which time it developed into depression. Whether or not loneliness was involved, depression certainly was, and from this depressive state sprung his moment of awakening. I really felt a connection with what he says about how his view of life changed overnight, as I had a similar experience in January of this year (unrelated to depression). This type of experience doesn’t give someone the answers to life ‘just like that’, but it sure kickstarts the research!

    Now, I think you know much more about Tolle’s subsequent personal development than I do, but the thought has occurred to me that the way he has dealt with his experience is the way that works for him. Hmm, that sounds rather obvious doesn’t it!? He is the man he was before his awakening in that he’ll still have the same personality traits, but now he feels he has a ‘knowledge’ he can share with others to help them escape the humdrum of their lives (I haven’t read any of his books, but aren’t they about empowerment?). That doesn’t seem such a bad idea; he’s probably helped thousands of people feel better about themselves and see that compassion can get you a long way.

    If he doesn’t understand that our energies are being extracted by beings from another dimension that’s his problem (-: (-:

    David Icke was involved in the media (communication) before he had an awakening experience in Peru. That experience told him he was to act as a messenger, which suits him down to the ground. He was always good at communicating with the public and he still is. That’s what works for him. Tp put it mildly, he’s opened himself up to being labelled ‘controversial’, and that obviously works for him too.

    I mean to say that if you put these two ‘awakened’ people in the same room together you won’t find that they have the same approach to helping others awaken. Some of their ideas may very well be different but I suspect they would both believe in Peace and Love, and I don’t think we’d catch them arguing with each other.

    The fate of the universe may rest on the decisions of many diverse people, and those people will have something in common: compassion for their fellow humans.

    More of these brilliant posts please Bronte!!

  2. brontebaxter said,

    May 31, 2008 at 2:59 am

    Jim, Tolle’s message is not what you surmise, probably because, as you admit, you never read his books. He doesn’t teach just “compassion and peace.” Check out “The Power of Now,” his major work.

    I think there is a lot in Tolle’s teachings that’s true and useful. I was very “into” Tolle at one time. But there is also a lot in the scriptures of the world, and in every spiritual teaching on the planet, that has some truth and usefulness. The problem is the thread that runs through the teachings and taints them. This thread deceives people, as it turns them away from the possibility of achieving self-empowerment.

    Tolle’s philosophy is passive. It is to know yourself as a universal Presence beyond your individuality and to let That run your life. There is no reality, for him, in the concept of individual personhood. Rather than be dynamic doers, we are advised to be observers — we are told our “doership” is nothing but illusion. This message has the effect of getting people to disidentify from their ego, from their unique spark, the most precious part of being human. By teaching this, Tolle aligns himself with the spiritual schools that prescribe death of identification with ego as the solution to all suffering.

    In other words: split yourself in two, detach from the personal side of yourself, cut it off. Then you will be free. But doing so is cutting off half of our own precious nature. Right before Tolle had his “awakening,” he had the thought, “I cannot live with myself.” That prompted the thought, “Do I then have two I’s?” and the notion that perhaps one of the I’s was a false self, one that could be dispensed with. A moment later, the vortex sucked him in, he heard the words “Resist nothing,” and he blacked out.

    When he came to, what he calls “the false self” was gone. That self was the ego, the personhood, the free agent within him that could will, decide, creatively desire, and independently think. In place of his obliterated ego was impulses and thoughts that he perceived as coming into him, moving through him, and moving out of him. He was only the observing vessel.

    While he experiences this as “freedom,” it is the freedom of ego death, soul assimilation. Something else moves through him and runs his mind and his life. In his transformational experience, he lost all desire to be and to do anything. He literally sat on a park bench for two years. He lived and lives a life of utter passivity. Something else speaks through him, moves through him. He thinks it is the Infinite. I think it is the consciousness that wants to assimilate every soul in the universe.

    So, no, I cannot endorse Tolle just because he “found something that worked for him.” I can’t stand by and smile as I see people surrender their personhood, the part of themselves that makes them unique, independent and human and that holds the key to their spiritual freedom. That would be cheering for spiritual suicide. And this kind of suicide is happening all over the planet. I contributed to the epidemic by teaching Transcendental Meditation for 17 misguided years.

    Yes, there is a presence in each of us. It is eternal consciousness, and the canvas on which we paint our lives. Or on which we allow our lives to be painted.

    Tolle never teaches how to use the presence, how to harness and express its dynamic power and intelligence. He only tells us to bask in it, to rest in it, and to let life happen. He believes that something in the presence then runs and takes care of our lives. But that is like sitting in your car with your foot “resting” on the gas, with your eyes closed and your hands folded in your lap, thinking the car will take you wherever it, in its wisdom, wants you to go.

    When we surrender the steering wheel of our life, we open ourselves to someone else grabbing hold of the wheel. That someone else is beings in invisible frequency dimensions who are all too happy to step in. When Tolle succumbed to depression, his intense negative energy attracted these entities and opened the door to their takeover of his life. They didn’t make him suffer or go insane, though they could have. They keep him happy and peaceful. That way he becomes the perfect poster boy for the message they want him to preach to the world: surrender identification with your personal self.

    I do agree, Jim, with one thing you say here: that we each contribute something unique to the world. And so long as we each hold only some of the pieces of life’s puzzle, the picture we are assembling of reality is going to be different for each of us. That’s why it’s useful to look at one another’s pictures, then re-examine the placement of our own puzzle pieces. I, too, hold just some of the pieces and am learning new things, and adjusting my ideas, all the time.

    You mention compassion. Spiritual teachers often appear to have it. It’s one of the things that sucks us in. If someone would just love us, just bathe us in their compassion, we would feel so much more comforted. “All you need is love,” we are told.

    But comfort is not a solution. Comfort is a pacifier. Comfort lulls us to sleep so we don’t feel the sting of life, the injustices, that we need to sharply feel to be spurred into action. Of course the fourth dimension preaches compassion and love. If we think that’s all we need, we won’t do anything powerful, and then the fourth dimension can take over our souls and our world unchallenged.

    The New World Order will not be defeated simply through compassion and love (although we much need those qualities to be merciful and harmonious in our actions in this time of change). The New World Order will be defeated not by passive feelings, but by people re-asserting their power of choice, taking back their permissions, and grabbing hold of the steering wheel of their own lives. The fourth dimension and their patsies, the global elite, cannot control this world without our sanction. Every time another person surrenders their ego, they grow in power and control.

    Bronte Baxter

    • Ken Kojei said,

      November 22, 2013 at 6:12 am

      Here is my take on it: We each ARE that original consciousness that lies beneath the “tonal” existence as Don Juan explained to Carlos Castenada. Our manifestation of presence would happen with or with “Gods”. They are bound by the same principles. All of them acknowledge “Original Cause” at some point. The “tonal is the product of the Nagual. It is this nagual that produces the “luminous egg”, the energy field that must accompany all manifestation, whether physical or non-physical. Actually, all manifestation is based on protons of light. Whether it’s vibration be of the ultra [as in ultra-sound] or infra[as in infra-sound] the frequency of vibration is what determines what “dimension” we experience.

      We live, not in a single instance of universe, we live among a multplex of them. This was proven by the Hubble telescope astronomers who were able to remove the distraction of diffuse light from their view to find that what they thought were stars were, in fact galaxies. That said, our most primal consciousness is that identified, not with a “god” because the “god” is a manifestation of the same consciousness behind the appearance of the object or person. It is in our identification with the primal consciousness that we achieve freedom. Identifying ourselves as that most primal consciousness, beyond gods and goddesses, beyond the local field universe is the task. If you find yourself-as Tolle did-with no ego, a false sense of comfort, of peace, you are absolutely right, all that has happened is you surrendered your will.

      Everybody worships the light. Yet the light is a manifestation that appear in limitless darkness. It’s power is subject to that darkness the way a leaf is subject to water circling down the drain. Light depends on darkness for its very existence, since it draws on the energy of that “darkness” to burn. Want to know what comparative power lies between the two? Black holes gobble up galaxies like popcorn. So the entire paradigm of “light” workers is erronneous and smacks of luciferian egotism. The angel of light drags one third of the stars into rebellion against what is and sets up a system wherein he, she, it or all of the above can harvest energy from deceived energy beings rather than generate their own energy.

      When you identify the primal consciousness as you, several things happen. 1. You have access to the primal knowing. 2. You have access to the primal energy. 3. You have the security and stability that is perennially enjoyed by the primal consciousness. 4. You have the love, the creativity, the joyousness of the state of being. There is no need for worship, or loosh vampirism because you ARE the energy source. Nor are you susceptible to giving away your individuality, your power, your will. By accomplishing the feat of identifying with the primal consciousness as you, as yourself you achieve freedom. Doesn’t require surrendering anything. Requires only acknowledgement, acceptance and understanding.

      • brontebaxter said,

        November 22, 2013 at 4:50 pm

        Who are you, where did you come from, and will you marry me? Just kidding, Ken Kojei, but WOW, you hit the nail on the head. And with such poetic force. Beautifully said! It’s great to read a statement of such insight and clarity.

        Now, the trick is KNOWING that nature of ours, isn’t it? At moments, when I’ve “been there,” I’ve been able to accomplish miraculous healings. Other times, repeating the same procedure and words, but without being in that masterful consciousness, my “healings” have yielded paltry results. Somehow we must step beyond our intense identification with the body and remember our deeper identity. When we manage to do that, we are the author of our lives and bodies and can accomplish anything.

        Bronte

        Bronte

  3. Barbara said,

    May 31, 2008 at 6:40 am

    Another brilliant post Bronte. Thank you.
    There is a book called “Courageous Souls” by Robert Schwartz. My daughter is interested in the spiritul world, mediums and so on and I gave it to her as a gift. It is about people planning difficult lives for themselves before they are born in order to learn from them.
    In some ways my life has been difficult and challenging and I wouldn’t have liked it to be too easy because of the experiences that I would have missed out on. The book helped me a lot because I heard about it at a difficult time.
    Now I am wondering who are the people who help us to plan your next life. Why make it hard? is it because they want to keep us trapped in a body on earth? Of course I don’t know if it is true but there is also a reference to planning the next life in “The Holographic Universe” and to me that gives it some more credibility.. I hope that I am not getting away from the subject here. I am thinking about people who have really difficult lives and why should anyone want to go for a life where they never got enough food. Are some people choosing to be drug abusers time after time? Do we learn and plan better lives or are the gods feeding off our grief and despair?
    What do the gods do when we are happy and enjoying the solstice? Does this bring them power?
    Bronte I am not expecting you to answer these questions for me. You have got me asking them and that is enough.
    Big thanks
    Barbara

  4. Jim Porter said,

    May 31, 2008 at 6:44 pm

    Hi Bronte,

    Thank you very much for enlightening me further with regard to Tolle. I enjoyed reading your detailed reply so much (-:

    May I quote again from Man and His Symbols (Jung) which I have been reading.

    “Any of us can see, of course, that there is conflict in our lives between adventure and discipline, or evil and virtue, or freedom and security. But these are only phrases we use to describe an ambivalence that troubles us, and to which we never seem able to find an answer. But there is an answer. There is a meeting point between containment and liberation…”

    It’s as if there is a middle way, a path best trodden through the exact centre of two opposing sides. This middle way doesn’t involve surrendering any part of one’s self, just recognition that there are two sides. Once you recognise this you can start to find a way to balance them up.

    From this comes compassion – with a greater understanding of one’s self and inevitably that of others around you.

    I think compassion and love are necessarily a part of any significant change that will happen in this world, as long as they come from inside the person who wants to effect the change. My compassion comes from inside of me. I do not give myself up to it. I feel it and I exercise it. From what you say about Tolle, it doesn’t work like this for him. How interesting it is that that his moment of awakening came from the depths of depression (negativity).

    I see why Tolle might be the poster boy (hasn’t Oprah Winfrey helped him become famous by the way?) if what he is suggesting is: “Don’t worry, everything’s fine, the world is just perfect as it is”. The world may be developing as it is supposed to be but how can it be ‘right’ if there is suffering? And just because because it is developing according to a grand plan, there’s no reason why that plan shouldn’t include a revolution in thought by the people, brought about by the people.

    Bronte, I know you feel strongly that a spiritual approach does not mean a passive, ‘basking in it’ approach. Of course, that is right. In my case, before I had an awakening of a sort in January there was injustice in the world. After this awakening – guess what? – there was still injustice in the world. The fact that I had switched on to see the world around me in a very different way to before didn’t instantly make that world right. What it did was make me think: is there a way I can contribute to help others understand that it doesn’t have to be like this?

    I, like you, cannot go along with the injustice imposed on my human race. Now, I don’t know if our DNA was tampered with by alien entities or if our vibrational frequencies have been lowered to produce this physical world we experience (excuse me if I am way off the mark with my alien comments; I read your posts intently as I seek to learn more) but I do know that we have the ability to change everything. I also know that there’s a tremendous power inside all of us which some people are more in touch with than others, and which can smash all the injustices.

    Will that power manifest itself on a sufficient scale before the New World Order is in place? I admire anyone who exposes the predicament the human race is in, you included.

  5. Deb said,

    May 31, 2008 at 7:06 pm

    Exactly! Referring to your comment, Jim: “What it did was make me think: is there a way I can contribute to help others understand that it doesn’t have to be like this?”

    Well said – Hope you don’t mind if I borrow that explanation. I’ve had a hard time finding a succinct way of explaining that point to others. The “all love and lighters” group never sat well with me.

  6. srprose said,

    May 31, 2008 at 7:59 pm

    “he lived & lives a life of utter passivity” Hmm. I think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick if this is what you believe to be true…

  7. Duane S said,

    June 1, 2008 at 1:16 am

    David Icke is simply a very powerfully driven male who has chosen to help lead any who will listen and ponder to a voice that is not “brilliant” nor “enlightened”; but who grasps the entirety of the “grand schemers” in our world.
    These people are simply pawns of power (a power even they cannot know is leading them); and because it is so much simpler to convince “the masses” that power is force/coercion/threat of punishment/ad infinitum…and easy to apply in these earthly circumstances; it is quickly accepted as a major principle of social life. We who are not able to accept “orders” from some other person/power source, are simply major sources of trouble to those dictators. It is very hard to view what horror they subject us to; and not see that “they” are indeed from some alien locations not accessible to us. But; by allowing “them” the authority to guide us; we quickly become monsters to each other. “Every man’s (person’s) death diminishes me” implies a responsibility that is very real. Meditation/contemplation does not address reality. It simply removes that awareness of the earthly human problems; but not the guns from the soldier’s hands. Thank you. DS

  8. Ant said,

    June 1, 2008 at 1:45 am

    Free will cannot truly exist in a world which manipulates and deceives at every level. A person first becomes a product of this deception and the resulting ego acts accordingly. It’s only this conditioned aspect of ourselves which is illusory and needs to be let go of. One is not surrendering personal choice, therefore, but a facsimile of personal choice. Once this virus has been removed, we can begin to allow our true and unique identity (soul) to emerge. Our free will was necessarily suspended, to some extent, when we chose to incarnate as a “physical being” in the first place. It’s all part of the game.

    The Borg analogy applies to this planet in its present state, not to people who detach from environmental conditioning, as Tolle and others advocate. The vast majority of people unwittingly serve and enforce the elite agenda through their identification with ego and the herd mentality. Once freed from the manipulation, of course, we begin to understand not only our uniqueness, but our ultimate Oneness. In this sense, we become part of a “collective,” but that’s what will ultimately destroy this present system and prevent it from ever returning.

    Nothing in physical reality can be permanent, nor should we wish it to be. Physical death is meaningless. The real mystery is why we chose to experience this dense reality in the first place. In his book, The Secret of the Soul, William Buhlman claims that most beings choose not to incarnate here at all, because it is considered “too extreme.” And having consciously experienced the astral for myself, I can certainly see why non-physical reality is preferable.

    To take any of this very seriously is the mistake. There is no “fate of the universe” resting upon anything. Time itself is part of the illusion. We have entered an interactive DVD, if you like, by our own free will, and for our own very personal reasons. You can play the game of “us and them,” if you like, but ultimately even the manipulators are part of the game and contribute to the library of infinite possibility and infinite experience. There are countless worlds that we’d consider “paradise,” and we’ve probably lived countless lifetimes upon them. It’s only from our very limited perspective in space and time that any of this seems “serious.” It’s a bit like uploading one’s consciousness into a character within a computer game. If you want to wake-up within the game, first disassociate from the character, then disassociate from the game. When you truly see through the illusion, all that’s left to do is sit down and have a good laugh.

  9. Jim Porter said,

    June 1, 2008 at 1:53 am

    Hi Deb, I don’t mind a bit.

  10. LoriA said,

    June 1, 2008 at 2:10 am

    Hello,

    From what I understand of Tolle’s teachings, the “soul” and “ego” are two distinct entities. The soul, residing in the right brain, is the breeding area for creativity while the ego, a left brain entity, is an inhibitor to creativity. The soul (or Infinite Consciousness, or whatever) is the true self. The ego is the false, or shadow, self that is responsible for all suffering. When the ego is not fed, the soul becomes stronger.

    From what I gather from Icke, the 4th dimensional beings feed on negative energy. So if ego identification is responsible for generating vast amounts of negative energy on a global scale, isn’t it a good thing to end it? I think there’s a huge difference between accepting what Is so as not to conjur up negative energy and not working to change anything. In other words, yes, absolutely continue to work to change injustice, but do so in a way that does not create more violence, negative energy, hatred, etc. Passive resistance takes much more intelligence and creativity than banging one’s head against the wall and tilting at windmills. And that action MUST start within each individual.

  11. brontebaxter said,

    June 1, 2008 at 3:38 am

    Loria, Tolle only teaches that there is a universal soul, not an individual soul. In other words, he tells us that there is only one “I,” the cosmic or universal self, the Oneness. He teaches exclusive identification with that oneness. The parts of the self that are individual, he classes the same as gurus do, as ego and the product of karma or ignorance. Tolle doesn’t use the same labels, so it’s much trickier to detect the same fourth-dimension-tricksters behind his teachings, which is one of the reasons I mentioned him today. Because a lot of us think Tolle is teaching something different, something in alignment with freedom, and it isn’t.

    Look at what you said:

    “The soul, residing in the right brain, is the breeding area for creativity while the ego, a left brain entity, is an inhibitor to creativity. The soul (or Infinite Consciousness, or whatever) is the true self. The ego is the false, or shadow, self that is responsible for all suffering. When the ego is not fed, the soul becomes stronger.”

    You’ve identified here only two aspects of human nature: our infinite impersonal side and our personal side. Yet you’ve equated the infinite impersonal side with all our creativity and the personal side with all our suffering and ignorance. That sort of division is identical to the sinister element in Eastern teachings that I have been writing about. You are telling us there is no soul except universal self: no personal soul, Loria. All creativity, you say, comes from the part of the brain that houses the universal oneness. That gives credit for all the good things about our humanity to the Oneness and equates all the bad things with identification of ourselves as individuals. The result of such a philosophy is to make people trivialize their personhood and identify with their “universality.” But that universality that Tolle and the Eastern gurus talk about includes destruction and death. There is even a tape by Tolle titled “The Sun Will Also Die.” I am suggesting that if the level of universality Tolle is embracing and speaking for includes the destruction and death of the universe, it is fourth-dimension-level universality, not the Infinite. The Infinite knows no death. It approves no suffering. Those things belong to the realm of the physical universe, of Brahman consciousness or what Tolle calls “infinite consciousness.”

    One of the great difficulties in identifying the lies around us is that the deceivers steal our own terms and use them for their lies. True “Infinite consciousness” cannot include approval of suffering and death. Yet Tolle and others can steal that term and tell us infinite consciousness does (their argument being that we see it all around us, therefore the infinite must have created it). This is “enlightenment” thinking: it is no different than Easternism.

    Bronte

  12. brontebaxter said,

    June 1, 2008 at 4:12 am

    Ant, your comment demonstrates how the teachings of the modern spiritual set, who claim not to be gurus of course, can twist the awakening understanding of good and aware people. Here’s what you wrote:

    “To take any of this very seriously is the mistake. There is no “fate of the universe” resting upon anything. Time itself is part of the illusion. We have entered an interactive DVD, if you like, by our own free will, and for our own very personal reasons. You can play the game of “us and them,” if you like, but ultimately even the manipulators are part of the game and contribute to the library of infinite possibility and infinite experience. It’s only from our very limited perspective in space and time that any of this seems serious. When you truly see through the illusion, all that’s left to do is sit down and have a good laugh.”

    This is another teaching of Tolle that perfectly reflects the Eastern gurus: “it’s all an illusion, a cosmic joke, the mistake is to take any of it seriously.” Do you not see how this encourages passivity and acceptance of the status quo, acceptance of all that is happening in the world? That means acceptance of the growing New World Order.

    I suggest that if our solution to the New World Order is to have a good laugh about it, we are in serious trouble. The trickster teachers are taking a piece of the truth: that the universe is a field of vibration that only appears solid – and twisting that to make us believe it is therefore trivial and unimportant. After all, who wants to invest themselves in “an illusion”?

    The teaching here is that because the world is dreamlike and ephemeral at its deepest level, that it is unimportant, that we should cease investing ourselves in what happens in it.

    But the world is the expression of a desire by the Infinite to make a wonderful playground where all its children can enjoy life forever in harmony together. This dream got hijacked by some of the Infinite’s children, the fourth dimension, who tell us they represent that Infinite and that the Infinite approves their destructive birth-and-death, breed-and-devour philosophy.

    I assure you that if we sit back and just “know the truth within ourselves” (which isn’t even the truth, but a high level of the tricksters’ version of the truth), the freedom of mankind will soon be gone completely. Those who are most aware will calmly accept all that’s happening, smugly and knowingly watching while humanity walks right into the trap. They will even have a little laugh about it, as the microchip and global government fasten themselves onto every individual. If that is allowed to happen, with the personal spark in every individual getting snuffed out, the universe will soon implode on itself. It has nothing to sustain it if the light goes out.

    We can have our smug little laugh, or we can take back our freedom. We can pride ourselves on being above the game, or we can get in there and start slugging. Which side of the war do you want to be on? To remain neutral is to do nothing. To do nothing is to allow the takeover of human consciousness.

    Bronte

  13. C. said,

    June 1, 2008 at 5:16 am

    Another very wise post Bronte, thank you.
    But, at the risk of being unpopular, I must say that I am wary of anyone who blows the horn of compassion. That is another word that has been thrown around for a long time and especially used by those who want to establish a link of trust. I just did a quick search on the word and coincidentally, it is more often than not associated with “angels” and “ascended masters, the bible, and other texts such as channeled messages etc, by supposed higher beings; they all say the key is compassion…
    It just looks to me like another juicy piece of cheese on the rat trap!

    Compassion is not love, yet many take it to mean the same thing. If it did, why would we need two different words to convey the same concept?
    If love is not within compassion why do they say “compassion and love” every time as if it was salt and pepper?
    The definition of Compassion is: “deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it.”
    The wish to “relieve it”, more often than not, is impossible, for many reason, the first one depending if the person wants to be relieved of it.
    Furthermore, pain’s primary function is an indication, like fear, that we must flee a threat or danger..or learn from the bad experience.
    If by being helped I don’t learn- I wasn’t really helped at all! I’ll eventually be in a similar situation and still be helpless.
    We must understand that the desire to help is based in the belief that one cannot help him/herself- it’s a negation of his own divine power!
    They say the path to hell is paved with good intentions…what nobler intent, it would seem, than the desire to help and relieve another’s pain!
    There is a difference also between helping ( in this context) and assisting or co-operating. The latter two are much more effective and empowering and fall in the category of “team work”, where every participant learn and profit from the experience.

    Compassion, the way I see it, is a high vibrating energy WITHIN the low frequency range.
    Compassion is just a lateral move from sympathy. It is actually a synonym for pity. Just like pity, compassion emerges from a feeling of superiority. It says, “you are helpless, but I can, or wish to help you…see how good I am?” It’s condescending! And demands something in return- gratitude, respect and praise (loosh alert!!!)and often to an obligation to “stay under their wing”, dependant and compliant to the helpers “advice” ( as is the case with the very charitable countries).
    I don’t need pity, and compassion doesn’t help me either. Sure it may feel a little better to know that someone understands, but I sure would expect more from “higher entities”.

    Here is an excerpt from Karen Bishop’s “energy alert” site:
    Compassion is a higher vibrating energy, but love vibrates even higher. When we are in compassion, we are taking on the energy of that which we are feeling compassion for. This pulls us down. In addition, there is no compassion on the other side as there is no suffering. Deep caring can be awesome, but too much of it can allow us to give ourselves away. Love is pure and simple. We love but do not own or relate anymore to the energies of which we are no longer in alignment with. Love and limited caring until we are able to be only in pure love is perhaps the best scenario in dealing with these energies.

    Further on she says: Non-physical beings don’t spend a lot of time in our dimension, even though they can be great advisors and love us dearly. They do not spend much time in our dimension because they cannot. Higher and lower vibrating energies cannot exist in the same space for long periods of time. http://whatsuponplanetearth.com/April3.2008.htm

    Strictly at the human level, there is nothing wrong with compassion- it’s a statement about tolerance and a recognition that we all are subject to the same “human condition”. We are all in the metaphorical hole together.
    Let’s look at it this way—let’s say you fell in a deep hole and need help to get out. The “compassionate” will jump in the hole with you and tell you “I know what you feel, I feel it too”.
    But the way it’s used by supposed higher entities it’s about reveling in the emotions triggered by the situation, it’s about feeling superior to the person “who’s in the hole”, and does absolutely nothing in manner of helping productively -i.e. getting you out of the whole. The “compassionate entity” only wants to make your stay in the hole more comfortable, more tolerable and last as long as possible. A loving and/or sympathetic entity, will stay out of the hole and may coach you out of it, encouraging you to find your own strength so that you may join them.

    It’s like the old saying; “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime”.
    Look around and observe how much people that are “being helped” profit form the actual help…are they becoming self sufficient? If not, they are not helped but rather maintained and hindered from becoming self sufficient.
    Compassion says, “I know what it’s like to feel hungry, I wish I could help you, but I can’t so I feel with passion, your pain in the hope that your pain will thus be diminished”. But all it does is multiply the pain felt, instead of one feeling pain, now, two feel it. How is that supposed to be seen as something “good”?
    Yet the word “compassion” is used very profusely and effectively to sway people into believing that the intent is benevolent.
    And just like the ones who shouts they’re honest or faithful or whatever, my ears perk up in alert. The truth stands on it’s own and doesn’t need to be shouted.
    If one is truly honest, it will show in his actions and “vibration”…. no words are needed.

    I think we need to understand that there is only one true way to actually help – in Mandela’s words:
    “And as we let our own light shine,
    we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
    As we are liberated from our own fear;
    Our presence automatically liberates others.”

    Bronte, thank you for you are letting you’re own light shine through these posts!

  14. Ant said,

    June 1, 2008 at 6:06 am

    Understanding the illusory nature of time and physical reality hasn’t promoted either passivity or ‘acceptance of the status quo’ in anyone I know personally. Rather, it seems to dissolve fear and empower the individual. The NWO will collapse when enough people cease to take it seriously. The fact that we are here at all means that we’ve chosen to invest ourselves in an illusion, just as people invest a lot of time, effort and emotion in sports and computer games. But this is the ultimate game, of course, and many will choose to participate in the drama. That’s okay too.

    “If you’re fighting the system, then you are still caught in it. The ultimate revolution is expressing who you really are.”

    “This isn’t about fighting the system, it’s about ceasing to hold it together. We cannot be imprisoned without our cooperation.” – David Icke

    Love moves a person to empower others, and that’s why knowledge of the NWO agenda is spreading like never before. Humanity cannot walk into a trap if its eyes are wide open. And the biggest part of the trap is fear itself. It’s not about smugly laughing at the fate of the world, or priding ourselves on being above the game (which Eckhart Tolle would point to as being pure ego). It’s about understanding who we really are and realising that it’s fear of the NWO which holds it in place.

  15. C. said,

    June 1, 2008 at 7:49 am

    Just to clarify, if only for my own peace of mind…; )
    Compassion did/does have a place, what I am saying above is that we have to be aware of it and keep it in perspective.

    Compassion is a great way to evolve or ascend to the higher dimension of being. It can assist tremedously in learning without having to experience first hand and thus speeds up the process greatly. But keep in mind that if you are compassionate about, let’s say another’s starvation & lack of food, it’s because somehow you believe you don’t have the power to create food for yourself, you don’t trust in your divine abilty to feed yourself adequately and so on….patch that hole and move on.
    Lingering helps no one. But seeing you not fearing starvation, having transcended it’s menace, may very well inspire and encourage another to do the same.

    I believe that is the main spiritual value of it, and somewhere along the way the term was distorted…usurped.

    The minute one gets bogged down by reverberating helpless or other negating emotions, it’s got to be dropped like a hot potato! There is no honor or nobility in holding on to it! And walking around wearing a mantle of compassion is only another disguise for arrogance and a desire to impose one’s concept on how to live and learn.

    That’s where the distortions and horrors come in, in that belief and compulsive need and desire to help, even when it is not required (see recent Myanmar situation, Spanish monks “helping” Inca and Mayans… the exemples are limitless it seems ….) . That is when we just produce more loosh and stop moving forward…or upwards.

    If we have truly reached a higher way of being we know that the best help is to let them learn to help themselves.

    Once we are at the treshold of the higher way of being, compassion becomes something that must be left behind and replaced by unlimited unconditional love. That is the true goal…. for me at least

  16. LoriA said,

    June 1, 2008 at 8:30 am

    Bronte –

    You said:

    “You’ve identified here only two aspects of human nature: our infinite impersonal side and our personal side.”

    I did not say, nor do I believe, that our true infinite self (consciousness) is “impersonal.” And I don’t equate ego with my “personal” self. I am not my ego. I am, however, well acquainted with my “pain body.” I would be very pleased some day to be able to say it’s gone.

    You also said:

    “Which side of the war do you want to be on?”

    This wasn’t directed at me, but I would say I refuse to participate in any type of “war.” This is the type of negative energy that, according to Icke, the 4th dimensional entities feed on. Isn’t that what really keeps us prisoners? The way I see it, we are perfect consciousness experiencing 3-D reality as part of an infinite journey. If I’m wrong, at least I didn’t waste the time I had here on Earth fighting neverending wars, being angry and fearful, and feeding the beast.

  17. pranicmegan said,

    June 1, 2008 at 9:37 am

    You reflect my own ideas back at me.
    I too have wandered through the ‘New Age’ abyss, plucking out bullshit as I went, hoping to discern the pearls.
    I have ended up coming to the same conclusions that you have.

    I have to say, WELL WRITTEN mate!

  18. brontebaxter said,

    June 1, 2008 at 9:51 am

    To Ant, who wrote:

    “It’s about understanding who we really are and realising that it’s fear of the New World Order which holds it in place.”

    It is not fear of the New World Order that is bringing it about, or “holding it in place,” but the fact that most people don’t know or acknowledge that our freedoms are being taken away and that the global fascist agenda exists. Along with the fact that we give permission, through so many of our choices, for the controllers to get away with their stuff.

    Agreed, that those of us who know of the agenda only feed it if we get into fear. But did you think fear is what I was recommending?

    It is not “fear” to identify a thing for what it is and decide to do something about it. You quote Icke as being in your camp on this, but isn’t Icke doing something about it? Isn’t he taking a stand, and isn’t he willing to dash his reputation and even risk his life for speaking out about what he sees? He writes about some pretty horrendous realities, but does that mean he is “in fear” of the New World Order? Yet you assume I am in fear, because I do those things.

    David recently wrote to me, “We see the world so very much alike,” and he’s published four of my articles on his site and written about me in his newsletter. I don’t see us as being opposed in our ideas whatsoever. I DO see people interpreting what David Icke writes in just the way you have, and that’s one of the reasons I started this blog: to dig at and develop some of the spiritual issues that surround the truth-seeking movement and that need, perhaps, to get better focused.

    You quote David Icke as saying:

    “If you’re fighting the system, then you are still caught in it. The ultimate revolution is expressing who you really are. This isn’t about fighting the system, it’s about ceasing to hold it together. We cannot be imprisoned without our cooperation.”

    I would agree. I do not encourage “fighting the system” but taking back the permissions we’ve given, consciously and subconsciously, that hold it in place.

    To Loria, who wrote:

    You said: “Which side of the war do you want to be on?” I would say I refuse to participate in any type of ‘war.’ This is the type of negative energy that, according to Icke, the 4th dimensional entities feed on. Isn’t that what really keeps us prisoners?”

    It isn’t “negative energy,” Loria, to speak out against deception and manipulative control, or to refuse to support them. That’s taking a stand for freedom in this “war” for control of humanity. What is it, if not “war,” when an outside force attempts to take over a planet? I suppose it’s only war if we resist, but I certainly hope enough of us choose to do that.

    You say that if we just spread love and enough of us become aware of the global agenda, that will stop its happening. Love is very important, but it takes more than that to defeat the NWO. It takes saying no to the growing usurpations of our freedoms, what Icke calls “doing the right thing.” It requires taking personal responsibility rather than allowing things to happen to us according to other people’s unquestioned agendas. On a spiritual level, it takes living with passion, expressing personal choice, defeating our negative self-talk and taking back the permissions we’ve given for the fourth dimension — which used to call itself “God or “the gods” but today calls itself “infinite consciousness” and “the One” — to run our lives.

    The true Infinite Consciousness does not have an agenda of breed-and-devour. If you read my last two articles, you will have a better idea what I’m talking about when I say that. The true Infinite Consciousness or true God is not the consciousness guru-followers, Tolle followers, and other New Agers are surrendering to. What’s being surrendered to is an impersonal isness, a universal presence, that denies the reality of the personal soul and all the choice, creativity and independence that goes with it.

    Back to Ant:

    It doesn’t matter, Ant, if YOU were saying there’s no personal soul. That is TOLLE’s position. Show me one place in any of his writings where he speaks of the reality of the individual soul. I have read every one of his books and listened to about half a dozen of his videos, because I used to be very excited about his teachings. Nowhere does he acknowledge the sacredness or even the existence of individual consciousness. All he acknowledges of the individual is what he calls the ego, or pain body, which is a complex of bad emotional attitudes from past painful experiences.

    That’s the same as what the Indian gurus teach about the ego, and they, too, almost universally agree that that is all there is to our individuality: a knot of negative attitudes held in place by karma and ignorance. If that’s what you accept is the basic nature of your personal self, why would you hang onto it or value it? And if you stop valuing your personhood, you’ll relinquish it to what you’re told is “the greater consciousness,” even though that personhood contains your power of choice, of acceptance or rejection of the system that the “greater consciousness” holds in place. That choice determines your slavery or freedom.

    This teaching about “the small self” is perhaps the fundamental lie at the heart of all these teachings, because when you accept it, you give away any sense of personal responsibility, any conviction of your need to do anything, and any criticism you once had against the greater consciousness (actually fourth-dimension consciousness) which has determined things are as they are. It is vital to those who wish to assimilate us that we stop believing in the reality or value of our personhood, because that is the only way we will ever completely give it up. If mankind can be persuaded, through religion, that the personal self is nothing but arrogant, ignorant egotism and hung-onto past pain, then mankind will relinquish it to the One. That Oneness consciousness, which we’re told is our own greater nature, is the consciousness that approves and holds in place the physical universe and its law that we must kill to live, must take life to survive. It is the consciousness that holds in place the realities of birth and death, predator-and-prey, wealth and poverty, joy and sorrow, and all the other pairs of opposites that involve lack and suffering.

    Unless we want to support that limited, albeit widely-pervasive consciousness, we have to see through and stop accepting the lies the spiritual teachers lace their teachings with. Tolle teaches some brilliant and useful stuff. He has to, or we wouldn’t accept the “death of ego” part. Each new spiritual deceiver who breaks upon the public arena as a popular teacher brings out a little more of the real truth — a deeper level of it — along with reinforcement of the old lie. This typically blinds truth seekers from seeing the lie, because we get so caught up in the new “good stuff” that we miss it.

    And Tolle doesn’t even talk about “it”! It’s what he doesn’t talk about, what he denies exists by his very failure to acknowledge it, that makes what he’s doing so sinister.

    Bronte Baxter

  19. astralkid said,

    June 1, 2008 at 5:55 pm

    Excellent post and replies bronte , indeed people have to awaken to their individualism, it makes us to be that unique one person that you are .
    Everyone as his/her own power and mind, and yes , we live in a sea of consciousness and infinite possibilities but everything is different . That makes a tree a tree , a grain of sand a grain of sand , red is not blue , you get my drift.
    The only thing we are one in is that we share this vast ocean of energy and consciousness, the rest is up to each and every one of us.

    Thanks for your marvelous blog again :-)

    astralkid

  20. SunUP said,

    June 1, 2008 at 7:08 pm

    Finally, some sense… hard to find these days. Your words truly resonated with me and so appreciate your ability to filter through the endless confusion within religions and the utter deliberate confusion within the New Age world that seems to teach that ignorance of those who suffer is bliss. I for one will never give up my choices, my unique divine spark, and i will NEVER accept the brutality of this world with a blind eye – think about it!

  21. Ant said,

    June 1, 2008 at 7:14 pm

    Bronte –

    You said:

    “It is not fear of the New World Order that is bringing it about, or ‘holding it in place,’ but the fact that most people don’t know or acknowledge that our freedoms are being taken away and that the global fascist agenda exists.”

    I’m sure most of those who do know about it are busy empowering others with the information. I certainly am. However, the information may result in fear unless placed in a broader context. And, tell me, who is more likely to bow down to the NWO when it comes calling at their door? …Someone who fears it, or someone who laughs in its face?

    You also said:

    “It is not ‘fear’ to identify a thing for what it is and decide to do something about it.”

    If ‘doing something about it’ simply means sharing information with others and non-cooperation, then I wholeheartedly agree. However, I see no conflict with this and what Eckhart Tolle teaches.

    You also said:

    “This teaching about ‘the small self’ is perhaps the fundamental lie at the heart of all these teachings, because when you accept it, you give away any sense of personal responsibility, any conviction of your need to do anything”

    I don’t see it like that at all, and I would suggest that anyone who does has completely missed the point. The small self is a product of conditioning. Most people never go beyond it, and so remain plugged into the matrix. Their actions are completely mechanical, which means that they are easily manipulated. For example, patriotism is an aspect of the small self, and look how that has been used by the system. To identify with the small self is to remain a zombie; these people are essentially dead because they don’t know who they are and their every thought is given to them by the system. They are putty in the hands of the manipulators. Waking up is what empowers a person and generates a genuine sense of personal responsibility. Instead of living as a member of the herd, they are free to find their own path.

    Tolle is no position to tell a person who they are at soul level, and rightly doesn’t. He does, however, speak of our wonderful potential for uniqueness as individuals “now,” as well as the pure ocean of consciousness from which we all came and to which we are all connected. The individual “thread” of consciousness that one might call soul doesn’t even survive life, so there is no need to speak of it beyond the illusion of death. It is constantly changing and evolving from one experience (or lifetime) to another. Ultimately, of course, there is no “we,” only an infinite “I” playing a game of hide-and-seek with itself. So embrace your individuality, enjoy it, but know also that you are God.

  22. frankanne said,

    June 1, 2008 at 8:14 pm

    Dear Bronte, what a wonderful article. It resonates perfectly which what I’ve been feeling for a long time now. You put into words what I could only feel and not express very eloquently. One poster on here (sorry can’t remember the name) spoke about compassion being a useless emotion, well, words to that effect. The point of compassion, the way I see it, is to spur us on to do something about it. People going hungry was an example given. Compassion shouldn’t just make us say ‘oh, we really feel for you’, compassion should drive us to challenge the arms trade for instance, because without the mega powerful mega rich arms industry, there would be a lot less hunger in the world. Empathy and kindness is not enough, neither is just feeling compassion. Action is needed and if enough people protested against the corrupt arms trade, then this would go a long way to helping the starving in the world. When people believe that all that is is meant to be and that we need do nothing, THAT is the problem, THAT plays right into the hands of the arms traders. It isn’t enough to say that we are no part of the arms trade and we have found ‘oneness’ and do not feel negativity, while doing nothing to challenge the corruption that is the arms trade. Action is needed. I mention the arms trade as just an example. There are thousands of other examples. People don’t like the word ‘fight against’ or ‘war’. I’m not advocating violence or taking up arms against – I’m talking about peaceful strong protest in numbers so vast that the corrupt arms traders could not carry on with their poverty making practices, IF ENOUGH OF US JOINED TOGETHER AND PROTESTED. If we all become ‘enlightened’ and passive, then the corrupt arms traders will be laughing all the way to the bank and beyond.

    So let’s start DOING as well as BEING.

  23. June 1, 2008 at 10:15 pm

    Interesting discussion esp. about Tolle. However – the ancient cultures saw the Creator and the Creation as one and the same. Identification of oneself with all of Creation is therefore a high aim to unite with ‘All-That-Is’. To surrender to lower entities of this or astral worlds whose aim is enslavement of our race – obvious or subtle – is quite another thing. Giving one’s power away has been taught to us for thousands of years by phony religion/ spirituality/education. The first important thing is to claim at least some of it back. For most of us that takes a lot of work and waking up, but then we have something to fight the tyrannies with. A spirituality which teaches us to be compliant and surrendered is no spirituality – if we are not against injustice we are part of the living-dead who just allow it. Real spirituality moves us to grow up and become the best of our-Self and create positive effect in the world for the good of all.

  24. lechatnoir said,

    June 2, 2008 at 12:54 am

    First of all, I would like to thank everybody who contributes to this discussion because it is truly a joy to be able to tackle such exquisitely complex and fascinating stuff with like-minded individuals. We may not agree on everything, but we’re willing to discuss it and for that, Bronte, your contribution is priceless.

    I pondered a long time on the issue of compassion. As somebody else pointed out, and I think it’s one of the main things in Castaneda’s material, the smug attitude wherein “I help you because you obviously are clueless” is anything but constructive. It’s akin to saying “I could do it but you can’t”, and I fail to see how it is helpful. Spiritual work is not easy, it requires discipline, commitment, self-observation, and a willingness to fail, because failure is an inherent part of it. I was hoodwinked countless times and every time I catch myself sucking the finger (in reference to the old wise man showing the moon to the idiot who stares at the finger instead), I have an opportunity to exercise compassion towards myself. Towards others, I think compassion is best demonstrated as willful patience. The intention is unrelenting, but it’s flexible. You may pause on the way, as long as you keep your eyes on the prize.

    There is some back and forth on the idea of whether it is preferable to laugh at the NWO or to actively seek to defeat it. Myself, I tried to ‘just be an observer’ but it’s not in my nature. No matter how much I lose myself into the ‘Oneness’, injustice and suffering are never acceptable, and believe me, I tried to ‘give it up’ on numerous occasions. Now, I tend to agree with the idea that not every being we meet is necessarily equipped to ‘resist’. Fundamentally, I like to think that everybody has the potential to do so (otherwise, it would be unjust, wouldn’t it?!) but then, I change my mind about this from time to time ;)

    Anyway, I think current events give us many reasons to rejoice and rekindle hope. The neo-cons are eating their own and the information can not be stopped. Every day, more people ‘wake up’ and that means the ranks of the DOR pushers are continuously being depleted.

    To me, that a blog like this one should pop up at this point in time is additional proof that we are ‘winning’.

  25. C. said,

    June 2, 2008 at 1:28 am

    Ant..Bronte…if I may join in…
    Ant,I understand what you are saying about the small self. But I think the point Bronte is trying to make- correct me, Bronte, if I’m wrong- is that the point is not to “let go” of the small self in order to join the Big ocean…the ocean gains nothing in this method. The point is to raise, educate, elevate, mature, comprehend the function and behavior of the small self so that it can mature and becomes a wise self, a higher self…so that it ascends in it’s view and perspective of Life, so that it becomes what it is- a child of God becoming an “adult”.

    And then, if one still wants to see it this way, when physical life dies, the extent to which we have worked at making our small self evolved, is the extent to which the big Ocean also evolves, whether we “return” to it or not. We are in “it” at all times, even when it doesn’t appear so, so we can’t possibly “return” since we never left. (Another illusion that is the source of much “spiritual” propaganda.)

    I don’t believe that the “creator” gave us something just to makes us then give it up. It’s the same basic logic the the catholic church preached- that we were sinners to begin with and the hopes of redeeming self was close to non-existant, unless we gave up all that we are to follow what they dictated. It’s the same logic that doctors in the 80’s used to justify removing women’s uterus’ once they were done having children- to remove the ofensive organ in the potential threat of uteran cancer. Why not cut your legs off so you don’t trip, instead of learning how to walkproperly? See the faulty logic?
    Growing IS painful, but just like giving birth, it can be a joyful kinda pain. Unbearable pain comes when we resist and deny our true nature.

    The point of life, as I have come to understand is to EVOLVE- we must evolve the lower, small self into the higher self, not abandon it! That is the only service humanity and “god” demands of us.

    I’ve been thinking about an analogy with a seed…that must break it’s hard shell, leave everything it knows and embrace the unknown “universe” in order to grow, mature and become what it truly is, what it is meant to be. How can that transformation not be painful, especially if resisted?

    How strange it must seem for it to conceive it is indeed a majestic tree and not only a “lowly seed”… If it only relies on what the other seeds say and have experienced, what it can readilly see, it’s chances of growing are slim to none. There is nothing in a seed that tells it is actually a tree!
    And if the other seed all have decided to just worship trees…none will have the courage to bust through the hard shell that surrounds them and connect to both below and above. So not much hope for having a beautiful forest!
    And if the seeds believe those other trees, that don’t want the seeds to grow because they would loose their choice place in the sunlight…again, goodbye forest!

    Seeds at first just “feed” on minerals and other physical nutrient, only extending their roots deeper in the soil…but eventualy it needs something else..intuitively it knows there is more to it than digging in the dirt.
    If it follows it’s intuition, and the exemple of other daring seeds it’s will then start and be encouraged to reach ever higher…develop branches etc…and the next thing you know, it’s a majestic tree standing next to and as glorious as the parent tree.

    As it becomes a tree and stretches it’s leaf, it also need to feed on sunlight….what if it keeps listening to other seed and refuse to see sunlight as a valuable food source…

    It’s the period of being “more than a seed and less than a tree” that is challenging and requires a quality of courage not encountered frequently….

    And yes, the seed comes from a tree, and will become a tree, but it doesn’t mean it must sacrifice itself, in the distorted and false belief that it will then return to be one with the parent tree!

    Yes, the lower self (state of being a seed) must be let go of to become a tree, but not as “spiritual gurus have suggested.
    It must be transcended, not rejected.

    It’s sad when a tree seed get’s convinced by the “experience” of other seed that they are only bird or worm food!!

  26. C. said,

    June 2, 2008 at 4:17 am

    Frankanne, I understand what you’re saying, but you did not understand what I said- I never said compassion was a “useless emotion”, I even made a point to re-post to make that clear.
    That’s how misinformation abounds!Read it again!

    I did specify that at the human level compassion has a place, a limited one, but still, since we were focusing on spiritual development… in THAT context, compassion has to be kept in perspective.

    As regard what you said, there is a difference between being passive, and being a pacifist, and a difference again in putting one’s head and the sand and singing to hear nothing. Not screaming and protesting on every rooftop is in no way an indication that I’m being passive.
    Only that I keep my energy for something more productive. And being a pacifist doesn’t mean I just accept injustice.

    The goal of the NWO is to break our spirit – like those ancient used to do with horses or dogs they were training- kill their spirit so that they could then have a passive animal to manipulate. Going head to head and toe to toe with them is no more productive and will still in the end just kill your spirit too.
    Remember that saying “what you resist persists”? So the surest way to succeed here would be to make sure our spirits are strong and doesn’t succomb to propaganda and half-truths.

    You say “IF ENOUGH OF US JOINED TOGETHER AND PROTESTED” Right…remind me again how productive the international protests against the war in Iraq were?
    Please, I’d seriously like to have some recent exemples about protestations and demonstration that actually produced the desired result.
    Do you really believe that if we all protest, like we did then, they’re going to listen more than they did then?
    They don’t care what we think and do what they well please. They have no conscience, so you can’t appeal to it. They have no sympathy…see the definition of “psychopath”.
    You can only hurt them where they actually feel…and that is money and power.

    Another thing is that we go at it the wrong way- vibrationally, if you will:
    we protest AGAINST war; we rebel AGAINST violence, AGAINST poverty …etc.

    What if we had a march FOR PEACE instead; demonstrate FOR equality in quality of life; march to support democratic and diplomatic efforts?
    ( I found a great essay on this attitude of wanting to remove what is bad instead of focusing on building and supporting what is good at
    http://www.sntp.net/essay1_1.htm go to part of article titled “Attacking the Negative, Eradicating the Undesirable”)

    Protest has stopped working along time ago!! If it ever worked at all.
    It’s even to the point, especially in here in Canada, that the minute we want to strike we are ordered back to work by quickly passed legislations that forbids public demonstrations.

    There has got to be a more mature way to deal with this and to me it is first and foremost stopping to think where, on the physical level, my money is going, and on the spiritual/consciousness level, where my power is going.
    Those are the ONLY things I can control. Going back to living life the way it was meant to, without all the gadgets the NWO so kindly provides on a regular basis to keep us amused, addicted,entertained, and passive..( not to mention the fluoride which renders us docile and all the others substances that commercial food is laced with.)
    Stop buying their products! At least be concsious of what you buy.

    For exemple I won’t buy Coke products anymore – why? besisdes the aspartame issue, they were of the “firsts” to profit from the Iraqi war. ( not talking about Halliburton’s being the first to profit because we are “not allowed to say it out loud)
    They went in an built a plant under pretense they were helping to give jobs and to rebuild. Yeah right! They took jobs away from unionized US citizens to do that, and now benefit from lower waged employees who don’t get benefits, unions or basic human right, and have a bigger profit margin.

    In a capitalist system, capital is what matters…remove the capital, remove the support and then maybe we’ll start going somewhere…but as long as there is still a soul that refuse to own it’s own power, there will be someone there to use it for them and against them.

    Big meaningless gestures like protests don’t accomplish anything…we tried it, it failed. We should focus on several small gestures, like educating ourselves into their modus operandi and communicating that, like David Icke is doing, like Bronte is here…etc.

  27. brontebaxter said,

    June 2, 2008 at 7:43 am

    I think, C., that you and Frankanne both could be right. Certainly where we put our money has an influence on the establishment, but so, I think, do “big gestures.” Massive protests on an issue raise public awareness, for one thing. I wasn’t even aware of the social issue Frankanne brought up til he (she?) mentioned it (Frankanne, are you a man or a woman, by the way?). Imagine if people saw protests about the issue all over their TV coverage. That would certainly make the public more informed about the issue. (In fact, Frankanne, maybe you could explain it a little here: how does arms sales affect food availability?)

    Big protests often influence where the money goes, and as you say, C., money is what the corporations listen to. A bunch of bunny pet owners got together and started a campaign against Petsmart when it started selling rabbits in its stores. People sent letters, protested, all kinds of stuff — and it worked! Petsmart stopped selling rabbits. (The group was opposed to the sales because, like cats and dogs, so many abandoned bunnies being euthanized in shelters, and we wanted people to adopt, not encourage more rabbit breeding.) Certainly everyone joining together on that issue created more of an impact than if a few people, aware of Petsmart’s decision to sell rabbits, had just individually stopped shopping at Petsmart.

    What about the big influence on black rights that the civil rights movement had? Protests were everything. They changed the face of the south. Okay, here’s a “futuristic” example. A lot of us know that the income tax is illegal, but if individually we stopped paying income tax, there’s a strong likelihood we’d lose our court case and end up in jail. I know a guy this happened to. By contrast, what if tens of thousands of Americans, aware of the tax’s illegality and angry at the terrible things our taxes go to support, protested in mass all over the country and collectively vowed not to pay the income tax? Could the government throw tens of thousands of Americans in prison?

    In the hippy era, kids protested the Viet Nam war and other atrocities en masse, and got arrested en masse, but the cops had to free them, because you couldn’t have hundreds and thousands of kids held in the jails. There wasn’t room. So they got arrested and released. Public sentiment – thanks to the protests – became so strong against the war, that getting arrested for protesting it came to bear minor consequences. Judges were lenient in sentencing, because the public opinion fell on the side of the kids.

    It’s estimated that the global elite who control what happens in this world make up just 5 percent of the population. The 5 percent can’t control the 95 percent if the 95 percent don’t let them. Part of taking back authority over our lives certainly means making private personal choices that returns our personal power and rescinds our support of the system. But it also, I think, at some point must entail group expression, solidarity of resistance. Collectively, we must say no, and say no very loudly. Looking at successful movements throughout history, like the effort to end the Viet Nam War or the Black Civil Rights Movement, we see the power of grassroots groups standing together for change.

    At some point we will be strong enough in numbers to make a big difference. That is why sharing the information of what’s really going on is so important. Because at some point, critical mass will be reached, and public sentiment will break out in concrete expressions (massive protests being one, I think). That public expression will educate and win over still more people. At some point, the public’s insistance on change will force the 5 percent to relinquish the reins for fear of what might happen if they don’t.

    I’m not sure how this will all happen. I think we’ll get ideas and inspiration as we go. It will be a grassroots thing, and the knowledge of how to proceed will come from within us. Right now I see the important thing to be sharing the information and talking about these matters, as widely as possible. That’s what I call “the freedom web” – the network of people quietly sharing the truth about the conspiracy. That’s what my article “Undermining the New World Order, One Whisper at a Time” was about. You can find it in the “pages” section.

    The American Revolution was won with just a third of the colonists being behind it. One third was for England, and one third didn’t care. I figure if one third of the world’s population becomes aware of the truth and decides not to stand for the tyranny anymore, we’ve got it made. Meanwhile, we need to keep thinking and talking.

    Bronte

  28. Lance said,

    June 2, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    I am so greatful to Eckhart Tolle and Oprah for turning me onto Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor and her beautiful book “”My Stroke of Insight””. Her story is amazing and her gift to all of us is a book purchase away I’m happy to say.

    Dr Taylor was a Harvard brain scientist when she had a stroke at age 37. What was amazing was that her left brain was shut down by the stroke – where language and thinking occur – but her right brain was fully functioning. She experienced bliss and nirvana and the way she writes about it (or talks about it in her now famous TED talk) is incredible.

    What I took away from Dr. Taylor’s book above all, and why I recommend it so highly, is that you don’t have to have a stroke or take drugs to find the deep inner peace that she talks about. Her book explains how. “”I want what she’s having””, and thanks to this wonderful book, I can! Thank you Dr. Taylor, and thank you Eckhart and Oprah.

  29. Jim Porter said,

    June 2, 2008 at 6:12 pm

    LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, hello again and welcome to this special edition of Peace Off, today between Eckhart Tolle and Bronte Baxter.

    In the Misguided Corner we have Tolle, a former depressive, turned spiritual guru. Tolle’s chief strength lies in persuading the people to ‘resist nothing’.

    And in the Enlightened Corner it’s Bronte Baxter. Baxter, who freely admits that she misled people during her 17 years of teaching transcendental meditation, is highly thought of in the world of spiritual blogging – but she’s still something of an unknown quantity. Most people have Tolle as their favourite.

    Ding, ding! There’s the bell. Our two players make their way to the center of the ring. Tolle’s approach is typically meek (but that could be deceptive) while Baxter looks strong and confident.

    As they face each other now, perhaps looking deep into each other’s soul, I wonder: Which of these two will be the first to make a move? In all his years of spiritual guidance and ever since his awakening, Tolle has never wavered from his belief that the Ego must be totally subjugated; Baxter we know recognises that the Ego plays as important a part in our personal make up as the Self. What could be on her mind now as she stands face to face with Tolle?

    Still no move from either player. But wait, Tolle’s stretching out his arms. Amazing! He’s embracing Baxter, he’s actually embracing her. And it’s all over!

    Let’s grab a quick word with each of the players.

    – Hi guys. Bronte, what was going through your mind as you faced Eckhart?

    – Hi. Well, I just knew. I knew what I feel is the truth. Whether or not Eckhart would understand and accept that was always going to be up to him. He chose to understand and accept.

    – I see. And Eckhart, what was it that led to your embrace, which took us all by surprise?

    – Though I have been led to believe peace comes from passiveness, there was something in Bronte which helped me understand that resisting nothing will not save the human race from slavery. At that moment I understood true compassion for my fellow human beings.

    Thank you both. That’s all for now folks. Join us next time for another Peace Off!

  30. Sean Goss said,

    June 2, 2008 at 7:19 pm

    Do humans being possess some power we not even aware of. Why is there a constant onslaught on the spirituality of mankind?And I include religion in that onslaught.

  31. Barbara said,

    June 3, 2008 at 6:08 am

    C you were saying “What if we had a march for peace” There is such a march. It is long and ongoing. You can join for a day or a week or whatever time you like. Search for Footprints for Peace to find the website. It is international. You may find a walk near you.
    We also have an organisation here in Scotland called “Scotland’s for Peace” because we want to be a peaceful country not one that is for war. The Stop the War Coalition on the other hand I think is a bad name because it somehow assumes war.

  32. Brian said,

    June 3, 2008 at 8:39 am

    In a perfect world form is understood by its inhabitants as being composed of holographic imagery that manifests for the purpose of having ‘points of bearing’ for consciousness to experience its being in a myriad of fashions. Intended illusions in a ‘playground of life’. A native american term for this is called ‘taya katu’- playing with the illusions of being that we create for ourselves. The great deception has been perpetrated by that which has imposed a biological imprint on this form-at which serves the purpose of control through the programmed system of a life-death cycle. George Bernard Shaw once said that the thought of eternity was unbearable. Of course it is if your frame of reference is one that has as its venue a physical world that just seems to wear you down at every turn. But when you realize that all we experience is the product of imagination and that matter is an imposition of tyranny then any notion of eternity becomes easier to accept, yet awesome when you consider how conditioned we are towards believing that there’s an ‘end’ to life. When you understand that there is no end, a lightness of being takes over. ‘Rest in peace’ doesn’t indicate an end. It simply means you’re ‘resting’ when you’re not engaged in the joyful experiences of taya katu. ALL of your being is peaceful whether you’re ‘engaging’ or ‘resting’ from the engaging’. This is our truth. We’ve bought into the lie long enough. It’s exactly what Jesus meant when he advised not to be ‘married’ to the world. When your eyes are opened and you see the hypnotic trance-state that we’ve been under for so long-when you really get it, and start laughing at the absurdity of what we’ve been putting ourselves through, then the light is turned on and the cockroaches start scurrying for cover. The jig is up for the new world odor.

  33. Barbara said,

    June 3, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    Brian are you sure that Jeasus said that? How do you know that Jeasus existed?
    Barbara

  34. Brian said,

    June 3, 2008 at 8:11 pm

    Barbara, whoever might be attributed to having said that is irrevelant, don’t you think? What if it was uttered by a man named Y’shua(Jesus being the Greek equivalent) upon whom a mighty campaign of twisted, misleading, convoluted, abberated(fill in the blanks for more adjectives) disinfo has been heaped for two thousand years. We need to be careful here and not let some bogus sun god mythology discredit what the meaning may be behind a thought like that. Talk to me about the thought, not the thinker

  35. frankanne said,

    June 3, 2008 at 10:00 pm

    This really is a fascinating topic. I’m a woman, by the way. Strange because I asked the exact same question of you Bronte, on David Icke’s website – is Bronte a man or a woman. Great minds think alike and ask the same questions, LOL.

    Yes C. I can see your point about the protests against the Iraq and Afghan wars and how they had no impact. I think there were 2 million marching in London alone, yet the war carried on. Mind you, when you think that the UK has almost 61 million people, then 2 million is only 1 in 30. I suppose we need, as Bronte says, a grass roots swelling of feeling which manifests into peaceful action.

    I’m thinking now of that awful expression ‘human resources’. We used to be ‘personelle’, now we are ‘human resources’. Who thought up that title, I wonder? One person at the top? Did not those on the next level down protest about this? I know I would have done, but I would have been the one and only in a staff of say 30. I’m sure there were many who didn’t like the term, but they didn’t think it important enough to say ‘no way’, ‘no way are we calling human beings ‘resources’. Silly example, I know, but it does really get me going, especially when I think about the one who invented the expression, smugly gleeful to put such a label on us, such a brand name and we docilely ‘accept’ it, – what was that about ‘resist nothing’? Is this ‘resisting nothing’ in action?

    Getting back to the starvation/arms trade connection. Us UK tax payers actually fund a government department whose sole purpose is to market arms. Now the arms traders are mega mega rich and profit mind bogglingly from their evil trade, yet our government acts as an unpaid salesman, and WE pay for it!!!!!!! But that’s the least of the harm. The harm it does to the poverty stricken people in the poor countries is beyond words. The governments of the poor countries spend money on arms, rather than on food for its people, then the people get bombed and killed and injured because of the weapons, who communities desecrated – and all the while we have the G8 meetings of all the powerful and rich countries, talking about making poverty history, while they fund the weapons trade. Hypocrity enough to turn my stomach.

    It is all well and good to say do not ‘engage’ to not give energy to the negative, but just turning a blind eye to it is not going to stop it. Like Bronte said, we would still have slavery and aparteid (yes, I know we still have it, but the civil rights movement did a lot of good) and women would not have the vote if we didn’t protest. Look at the power of Gandhi with his peaceful civil disobedience. He didn’t turn a blind eye to injustice. He challenged it head on.

  36. frankanne said,

    June 3, 2008 at 10:12 pm

    Sean Goss said:
    Do humans being possess some power we not even aware of. Why is there a constant onslaught on the spirituality of mankind?And I include religion in that onslaught
    ————-
    I believe so Sean. I think that is why the powers that be are doing everything in their power to undermine us, as in the vaccination programmes, the fluoride in our water, the chemtrails, the corruption of our mainstream media, the onslught on all of our services, from the police, education, justice system, health system. Just look at how our doctors are educated. Their education is actually funded by the drug companies, who of course, push their toxic drugs and outlaw vitamins and minerals and herbs. Crazy.

    Anyway, yes, I believe that the powers that be are frightened of our power and our potential and that’s why they are doing all they can to put out our sparks. They can’t do it and they know it, but they are bad losers.

  37. frankanne said,

    June 3, 2008 at 10:27 pm

    I didn’t explain the food availability/arms trade very well. There are just so many ramifications but one example would be where the government of a poor country buys millions of pounds worth of weapons (in 2002 India spend ONE BILLION POUNDS on Hawk Jets). This creates third world debts which creates a situation where the country grows coffee for export rather than food for its people. The list is endless of the horror and poverty that is inflicted on the poor countries by the arms trade – and other unfair trading practices too, admittedly, but I have focused on the arms trade because of the destructiveness of it all.

  38. frankanne said,

    June 3, 2008 at 10:31 pm

    Here are a few links for those who are interested:

    http://www.controlarms.org/latest_news/g8report.htm

    http://www.caat.org.uk/issues/poverty.php

  39. frankanne said,

    June 3, 2008 at 10:32 pm

    Here are a few links for those who are interested:

    http://www.caat.org.uk/issues/poverty.php

    http://www.controlarms.org/latest_news/g8report.htm

  40. Jim Porter said,

    June 3, 2008 at 11:45 pm

    Sean says: Do humans being possess some power we not even aware of. Why is there a constant onslaught on the spirituality of mankind? And I include religion in that onslaught.

    frankanne goes into some of the ways the power that we have inside us is suppressed.

    What is that power? It’s a form of higher consciousness within each of us – to a greater or lesser degree – which has manifested itself at least as far back as the beginning of recorded history. In other words, it’s timeless – and infinite according to David Icke, for example.

    Oddly, higher consciousness does not reveal itself easily. Can anyone explain that? People talk of a spiritual awakening (the accessing of one’s higher consciousnesss) now taking place across the world, and I like to think this is happening because I don’t see any other way out of our current predicament.

    If you want to get a better understanding of what this ‘power’ is, look into dream analysis and you’ll see that we dream of ancient symbols and rituals which are far from meaningless, but rather the essence of life itself (excuse me, I am no expert on this topic; I hope I explain myself sufficiently).

    Even though they reveal things to us about our personal future, we choose not to pay much attention to our dreams normally, perhaps through fear and perhaps because we are conditioned to underestimate them. As a cricketer (a bit like baseball for those of you in the US) in my youth I thought I would go on to play professionally. I was good enough to do so, but my professional future as it turned out lay elsewhere. That may explain why I used to have a recurring dream of not being able to get my pads on in time to go out and bat. That dream was telling me something!

    According to the Collins English Dictionary ‘consciousness’ relates to a part of the human mind that is aware of a person’s self. Most of us go about our daily lives paying very little attention to our Self, and paying plenty of attention to our Ego – I wouldn’t blame anyone for acting like this, as it’s the way we are deliberately conditioned by almost everything we see (hey, check out the media!). An example of ego-dominated thought is: I want/need a bigger car (in order to compete with my neighbour).

    Those who have experienced an awakening of some kind notice that the Self plays a far greater role in their lives. Gone are the thousand-thoughts-a-minute, to be replaced by a calmer ‘inner voice’ and sense of knowing.

    A point I think Bronte was trying to make in her most recent post is that the Ego has qualities which mustn’t be ignored, even when you properly discover the Self. Correct me if I’m worng Bronte, but I think you are saying Eckhart Tolle is all Self and no Ego, which may explain why he works on the basis of Resist Nothing. If we all resist nothing the human race will benignly accept all the suffering that’s planned to come our way.

    Icke says the idea of those who control us in the current system is “to suppress the body as a vehicle for higher consciousness to manifest its awareness in this reality and thus keep the human level of the population locked-away in an electrically-infested, chemical-infested, toxic prison.” (Newsletter, March 09, 2008)

    OK, so you can you begin to see that 4th dimensional entities might be responsible for all this suppression? And if there’s a global awakening going on in the world – I can’t help thinking about the role the Internet plays in this – can you see why the ‘totalitarian tiptoe’ (Icke) has now become a ‘sprint’ (Icke again)?

    Makes sense to me!

    This really is a choice between Freedom and Fascism (Icke yet again!). Our higher consciousness recognises true freedom, whereas our conditioned state is inclined to agree that we need more control to deal with the baddies.

    In my view that makes an ability to access our higher consciousness so important as to be the saviour of the human race.

  41. frankanne said,

    June 4, 2008 at 12:35 am

    You make some really good points Jim that I can relate to.

    I believe that mind body spirit is so entwined that we cannot really separate one from the other. I know many feel that this is not so, but that is my feeling. For instance, if my body is pumped full of mercury (tooth fillings and vaccines) and fluoride, (toothpaste, water) and who knows what else from the chemtrails and other chemicals that we breathe into our bodies, then this will have an effect on my ability to reach a spiritual level. People take hallucinogenic drugs to achieve a heightened spiritual state, so that shows that our bodies are very important vehicles. It is my belief that we can be ‘hindered’ but not stopped. I feel so sad when I see parents taking their babies to be vaccinated. I do the best I can to warn of the dangers or even just ask the parent to please read up on vaccines. Again I come to the ‘resist nothing’ theme and feel that this is a potentially damaging message to give to us all. For instance, in some states in America, they are making vaccination compulsory. Should parents not resist this? Should they take their babies to be vaccinated just because they are threatened with court action if they resist the compulsory vaccines?

    When you say that the ability to access our higher consciousness will be the saviour of the human race, I agree. I honestly believe that the powers that be cannot stop this process, although they are doing all they can to make it as difficult for us as possible. They know they have lost and are very bad losers.

  42. sufi said,

    June 4, 2008 at 2:04 am

    Have to say, I loved the topic and the dialogue. I think many of us are walking down the same street, even if some of us are on opposite paths(sidewalks). lets try and remember people that language is often the poorest of communicators. There’s just too much room for (mis)interpretation.

    Brian, thanks for the comment “lets discuss the thought, not the thinker”, its one I like to use alot myself.

    As for the discussion with regard the Mass Protest being effective or not. I’d just like to throw this two cents into the ring. Recently here in Ireland and I’m pretty sure across Britain also there has been alot of generation of the idea of “hitting the big oil interests” where it hurts in the wake of the whole inflated oil prices.. This mail has been around alot of people and any and all I’ve met seem to wish to put it into action and have begun to. And as a side note, I have personally seen this mail being bandied about in two of the Governments own departments by our civil servants !!! Obviously all the info is in Euro and relating to Ireland but I think you get the picture. The plan is to stick to it till 2009 and see what effects start to emerge :

    We are hitting €139.9 a litre in some areas now, soon we will be faced with paying €1.50 a litre. Have a look at this good idea:

    This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the ‘don’t buy petrol on a certain day campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn’t
    continue to hurt ourselves by refusing to buy petrol. It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them. BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can really work.

    Please read it and join in!

    Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a litre is unavoidable and therefore OK, we need to take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the market place not sellers. With the price of petrol going up more each day, we consumers need to take action. The only way we are going to see the price of petrol come down is if we hit someone in the pocket by not purchasing their Petrol! And we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. Here’s the idea:

    For the rest of this year DON’T purchase ANY petrol from the two biggest oil companies (which now are one) ESSO and BP.

    If they are not selling any petrol, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow suit. But to have an impact we need to reach literally millions of Esso and BP petrol buyers. It’s really simple to do!!

    Now, don’t wimp out at this point… keep reading and I’ll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!!

    I am sending this note to a lot of people. If each of you send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)… and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) … and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers! If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes one level further, you guessed it… ..

    THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!

    Again, all You have to do is send this to 10 people and not buy at ESSO/BP. How long would all that take? If each of us sends this email out to ten more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next 8days!!! Acting together we can make a difference If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on.

    PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES!

    It’s easy to make this happen. Just forward this email, and buy your petrol at Shell, Asda, Tesco, Statoil, Elf etc. i.e. Boycott BP and Esso

  43. brontebaxter said,

    June 4, 2008 at 3:54 am

    Great discussion, readers. I’m just going to comment on one part of it, this thing that keeps coming up about the difference between Self and Ego.

    In Eastern philosophy, the “ego” and “small self” mean the same thing. In the West, we would call it the “individual soul.” When I say ego, small self, soul, personhood, individuality, personal self, I am referring to the same thing. The point I’ve been trying to bring out in my writing is that this personal self is disparaged by the powers that be as evil (Christian doctrine) or ignorant (Eastern doctrine). It is identified as selfish, insecure, competitive, petty, materialistic and all manner of other bad things BY ITS VERY NATURE.

    I am arguing that the small self is NOT those things by nature, that it only picks up such qualities due to lack of communication with its deeper self, its Source, the Infinite Consciousness it sprang from and that it is in every part and particle made up of. The small self has been polluted by ignorant thinking and attitudes, which is what makes us, as individuals (small selves) sometimes act in selfish, haughty, mean, materialistic, etc. ways. But the small self is more than its own pollution. It is a consciousness, an individuality, that is endowed with powers like creativity, originality, thought, discernment, reason, choice, determination, desiring, goal-making, and many more. These are good, essential qualities, of the small self. The bad side is only the small self confused by its environment and insecure in who it is (out of touch with the Infinite).

    What the deceivers have done is come and taught us — convinced us — that the small self is essentially ignorant and untrustworthy. They say it is nothing but its bad expressions and its mistaken identities. Saying the ego is nothing but its bad expressions is like saying a child is inherently bad because the child misbehaves.

    And let’s talk about the mistaken identities for a minute: mistaking the vessel for its content. Religion and spiritual teachers tell us that the ego’s identity is nothing but likes and dislikes, prejudices, memories, impressions, rooted attitudes, limited thinking, animalistic desires, our age, our race, our sexual orientation, our social status, or level of material wealth, our job or profession, etc. But I argue that these things are not the NATURE of individual self but the CONTENT of individual self: expendable, changeable content that is not the ego by nature. By nature, the ego is a unique energy-and-consciousness signature. It is an expressive vessel of the divine.

    It is like a cup, and you can submerge it in the sea or lift it out of the sea filled with water, or you can lift it out of the sea and empty the cup of water. In the first case, that’s small self resting in its cosmic nature, in consciousness of the Infinite. In the second case, that’s small self imbued with all the qualities of the divine, expressing in the world. In the third case, that’s small self empty of its memory of the Infinite, mucking about in the world disconnected and creating mistakes and chaos. But the cup in every case is inviolable. It is not the cup, or the personal self, that is what’s wrong with us and needs to be dispensed with. It’s what we sometimes do with the cup that causes our problems.

    Now I have a question for you guys. Is this point coming across? Because it seems to me although I’ve tried to say it lots of different ways, you readers commenting here still think I’m identifying ego with “bad” and big self with “good.” Jim, your last post sounded that way to me.

    I guess what I’m trying to say (and your guys are certainly help me work toward better defining it) is that there are not two things but three that are involved: big self, small self, and polluted small self. Small self, in its essential nature, is divine, which is why we must not surrender it or say it is an illusory nonessential. It is extremely essential: the vessel through which the Infinite expresses and creates in this world. Small self is divine, it has the qualities of a doer or free agent, of creative consciousness. Polluted small self is not something to be done away with, as that would be doing away with the soul itself. The polluted small self is just small self in need of cleaning, in need of more contact with its internal Source.

    And the other thing that gets confusing here, because religion has confused it, is that the Source is not the consciousness that accepts and approves birth and death, having to kill to live, or any of the lack and negativity we find lacing all good things in life. That is the consciousness of the fourth dimension, of those who have hijacked the physical universe and make it dance to their tune. The Source is a consciousness way greater than that, the consciousness that the deceivers, as polluted small selves themselves, have forgotten and fallen away from.

    Please tell me, friends, if this makes my position more clear. Or did you understand me all along and it’s just the multi-meanings of the semantics making it sound like you don’t?

    Bronte

  44. Barbara said,

    June 4, 2008 at 6:35 am

    I do think I understand what you are getting at Bronte but there was a post earlier in this discussion about what was going on in different parts of the brain. I would say that the small self may not be that small as not being physical it would not be limited to a size or take up any space. I wouldn’t say it would reside in a part of the brain . It would be the person, the brain being just the computer. The Source would be what we think of as God, not the other gods who take the credit for creation.

    Brian I did like your post. I had an experience of the Church though during the invasion of the Lebanon by Israel. I was part of a small group to set up peace camp at Brize Norton where the British army fly off from.
    We had made a banner that we hung across the camp site saying “WHO WOULD JESUS BOMB?” (It is the title of a song by David Rovics) Unknown to us we were camping on church land but instead of supporting our peaceful efforts not a day went by that the vicar came round to ask when we were going away and he also sent the police twice a day to ask the same question. We had thought Jesus wouldn’t even get into a war plane let alone drop a bomb and the church should support us. Even if they did not support our little camp (we had so much support from other people anyway) the church could take a more active interest in promoting peace so I would look to my own conscience and not the practices of the church for guidance

  45. Barbara said,

    June 4, 2008 at 6:43 am

    The petrol boycott is a good idea Sufi but there are people who would not go near Shell, Tesco or Asda (Wallmart) either.
    Could you not just make it that people give up their cars for a while?

  46. frankanne said,

    June 4, 2008 at 6:50 am

    Bronte said:
    the Source is not the consciousness that accepts and approves birth and death, having to kill to live, or any of the lack and negativity we find lacing all good things in life. That is the consciousness of the fourth dimension, of those who have hijacked the physical universe and make it dance to their tune. The Source is a consciousness way greater than that, the consciousness that the deceivers, as polluted small selves themselves, have forgotten and fallen away from.

    ————-
    Whenever I see a wild life programme where the tiger chases it’s prey, I feel so sad. So sad for the tiger – when I see the tiger cubs waiting for their meal, I hope the mother brings back food. When I think about the deer that will be that food, I feel so sad for the deer. I keep thinking ‘there must be a better way of life’. Our creator surely did not want this. And I believe that there is such a thing as abundance and plenty for all, that we/I need not feed off of others for survival and others need not feed off of me or others. That we/I will not hunger nor thirst. Yes Bronte. I believe there is something greater than this ‘ego’, whatever people want to call it.

    I also believe I have a road to travel before I get to the place that some people seem already to be.

    If I just emigrated to the place of ‘comfort’ in the knowledge that it isn’t REAL, then I would feel a ‘cop-out’.

    That’s my journey I suppose. To travel the road of challenge, to know I did not ‘turn a blind eye’. To give my EGO sustenance to grow, become mature, and hopefully give way to a new way of being – because if I did not do what I feel I must right now, then I would feel cheapened somehow. Oh my goodness! Thank you, all of you, I am learning so much about myself and about you all too. I am sorry that I have judged others if they are not on the same road as me. I am sorry that I have judged, full stop.

    This is MY road and I should not get frustrated that others are not here with me. I know I shouldn’t, but I can’t help it at times. Something for me to think on.

    Thank you all. I love a deep discussion because we can all learn from each other and listen to each other and GROW in knowledge, wisdom and love.

  47. frankanne said,

    June 4, 2008 at 7:13 am

    I’m just thinking of this emigrating to the comfort place, to the place where we do not hunger nor thirst. A place where there is everything I could ever desire – warmth, joy, bliss in fact, loving family, total acceptance, beauty, wonder, marvellous and exciting euphoria. I feel I’ve been there and I feel I left it – voluntarily, to do a mission.

    It is my belief that I came FROM that TO this. I came TO this for a reason. I didn’t come here to be comfortable, I think I came here to challenge.

    Why would I leave my wonderful, loving, beautiful, perfect, serene HOME for this earth?

    I want to go home right now, but I feel there are things, a mission, for me to do. Sorry if that sounds crazy, but that’s how I feel.

  48. frankanne said,

    June 4, 2008 at 7:29 am

    And before anyone points it out to me – I am aware that I am speaking from my ego now.

  49. Brian said,

    June 4, 2008 at 9:27 am

    Bronte, before I respond, not that it matters, but out of curiosity, are you a man or a woman? My guess is a woman and that maybe you’re named after the famed Bronte sisters of literature, Emily and Charlotte. If so then it’s appropriate because you’re a pretty good writer in your own right.( how’s that for ego stroking? Anyway, whenever I write I’m always concerned about the multi-meanings of semantics. It’s a difficult challenge sometimes to convey one’s intent when words can be so woefully inadequate. The concern I have with regards to my little contribution to the discussion has to do with your comment of ‘small self, in its essential nature, is divine, which is why we must not surrender it or say it is an illusory non-essential.’ Did you have my writing in mind when you said that? If so, then could it be that I was putting so much emphasis on the ‘big self’ that it made it look like I was considering the ‘small self as being an illusory non-essential? My intent in using the word ‘illusion’ invariably has to do with our containment in matter. The great conundrum is how do we realize our liberation without experiencing the ‘dying process’? I think the answer lies in an ‘all for one, one for all’ mindset where you contribute in your own way towards cleaning the pollution from the small self wherever you find it in yourself and others. This may seem like an inadequate solution for a profound ponderance such as this, but then again, we have been so conditioned by the ‘death culture’ that has defined our existence that we must understand that this awakening is still ‘rubbing the sleep from its eyes’. Recognizing in all its particulars how we are to define ‘cleaning the pollution from the small self’ by utilizing our keenest insights is what’s required.

  50. Ant said,

    June 4, 2008 at 11:21 pm

    The truth of what Tolle and other spiritual teachers say should be self-evident. For example, if your biological parents had lived hundreds of years ago, the “you” that popped out would have grown into someone very different from the “person” (from the word persona) that you perceive yourself to be today. That’s because everything that you might list when asked to “describe yourself” is either borrowed from your environment/culture, or else stems from experiential conditioning. ie. If the “past” you had been treated brutally as a child, the resulting adult may well have reflected that, been perceived as that, and, indeed, freely have admitted to being an aggressive person. But that would not be their ultimate identity. That’s just the “product,” the ego, the false self. It is a temporary identity for a temporary environment. To live as the ego is to remain within a prison of limitation. Surrender simply means letting go of the conditioning and bringing true conscious awareness to what would otherwise have remained an automaton, a robot, a mechanical man. It’s about knowing yourself as infinite consciousness and infinite possibility, thus avoiding the trap of false identity and its inevitable manipulation by others.

    Even within a single lifetime, how we perceive and describe ourselves changes constantly. So who is the “real” you? …The person you are today, the person you were a few years ago, or the person you’ll be at the end of your life? Of course, none of them are the real you, they are all just egoic personas. And knowing this (rather than just believing it) is true freedom, true liberation. However, it’s not something to be achieved in the future, for you are, in fact, already free. You have only to stop pretending that you’re not. Until you do, you remain like an actor who has so completely lost himself in the role that he believes the play to be real.

  51. brontebaxter said,

    June 5, 2008 at 2:21 am

    Ant, you are confusing the content of the soul with the soul itself, just as Tolle confuses it, giving him grounds to argue that the soul is unreal. The content of a toy-filled box is not identical with the box that holds the toys. Individual consciousness is not the same as the impressions, beliefs, and conditioning it has picked up.

    Individual consciousness (soul) is an awareness, with a unique energy signature. It is an identity that has been with us since our inception in the mind of the Source. It is distinct from our opinions, likes and dislikes, beliefs, and upbringing (the content in the box). Individual consciousness is who we are, one with the Infinite Consciousness that created it (but when we suffer and feel small, we forget that).

    Certainly individual consciousness gets polluted with attitudes that are negative and destructive. This happens because we forget how to connect with what we are at the deepest level of consciousness, our Source. Without frequent contact with That, we start to see ourselves as limited, fear creeps in, then anger, and all the rest of the negative, self-defeating attitudes. These attitudes, along with mistaking ourselves for our content, cause us problems.

    But individual consciousness is more than just an awareness with a personal energy signature. It is also a free agent, a masterful free agent when it draws on its power at the Source. This free agent has the ability to choose and to do. Deny the soul and you take away our free will, our freedom as agents and expressions of the Infinite.

    Freedom is not amalgamation with the fourth dimension, which is what Tolle recruits for: the consciousness that approves all that is, including death, energy siphoning, and destruction. Freedom is to claim the power of our personhood, the power of our unique consciousness, and to mindfully connect it with the Infinite Love at our core, the highest field of consciousness that supports all life and never supports destruction.

    This is what the cadre that has subsumed Tolle and that uses him as a mouthpiece wants to avoid at all costs, because when people claim the divinity within their individuality and start to live it, there will be no more owning and controlling us.

    Bronte Baxter

  52. C. said,

    June 5, 2008 at 6:50 am

    Discussion is going nicely…very informative.
    I have nothing to add but I’ve been keeping up!

  53. Ant said,

    June 5, 2008 at 7:59 am

    The article describes those who have woken up with words such as “Borg” and “Zombie.” And although those words may be meant as an insult, they do actually point to a greater truth. For example, the Borg is a hive mind; a collective. They no longer have an individual ego and use their unique skills for the good of the collective. They don’t merely believe their consciousness to be One, they experience that Oneness directly. So in this respect, at least, the analogy is appropriate. By contrast, the egoic individual sees itself in isolation and generally pursues its own selfish interests, oblivious to the fact that it is connected to all that is.

    An enlightened person could also be considered a zombie in the sense that he or she is invulnerable and beyond intellectual manipulation. The ancient wisdom spoke of “conscious dying,” after all, which refers to the death of ego. So, yes, an awakened mind may seem dead from the perspective of those who are still sleeping. This is because it no longer reacts in accordance with their conditioned expectations. Egos will poke it and prod it, therefore, wondering why it no longer dances to their tune. To them it has become like a dead thing.

    Still, this being a conscious death, it is very different from the sort of death which results in blindness and the loss of free will. That type of death is reserved for the ego, which is dead in the sense that a robot is dead. A robot, after all, may navigate its way around a room, but it doesn’t truly see. It may also perform functions, but it doesn’t truly act. Everything it does is the result of software. The ego is the same, only it derives its programming from other egos, much like a virus. This “collective programming” is then used by those who control the game. So, in many ways, the labels of Borg and Zombie apply equally well to those who are awake and those who are asleep. The words are the same, yet they point in opposite directions.

    All identity is necessarily conditioned, so regardless of one’s beliefs concerning the soul, it too is ultimately a product of experience, perhaps over many lifetimes, on many worlds. Whether it is this unique energy that shines through in the absence of earthly programming, or the light of pure consciousness, it really doesn’t matter. At least, it doesn’t matter to anyone who sees all identity as, ultimately, the roleplay of God.

  54. brontebaxter said,

    June 5, 2008 at 8:55 am

    Here comes Ant, speaking for the glory of the Borg and zombies. I rest my case.

    Bronte Baxter

  55. DAS said,

    June 5, 2008 at 10:52 am

    Putting words together will not take you far. Go within and discover what you are not. Nothing else matters.

  56. Brian said,

    June 5, 2008 at 11:15 am

    Ant,

    You say that all identity is necessarily conditional, and by my reckoning, you are one who sees it as, ‘ultimately, the roleplay of ‘God’. What you are in-ferring here amounts to a de-ferral by re-ferring to ‘God’. You defer your own power when you assign anything in the manner in which you presented it-that being some notion of ‘God’. This is the very notion that conditions our identity in the first place. The ‘God’ you are referring to is that which places conditions on our identities implying that we are thereby unable to know who we really are. No ‘God’ can assume a roleplay for us without it being an imposition upon our freedom to discover what our ‘role’ might be. For that matter, playing a role suggests having only a part in a production involving a collective ensemble. Why would you want to limit yourself to that when you could be the whole show! My unsolicited advise is to try not to get too bogged down by all the wordy traps of the intellect. Bronte is right when she says that we’ve been hijacked (I like ‘kidnapped myself, same difference) by a force of entities that, for lack of a better word, are just plain party-poopers and the sooner we get rid of these anal cretins and the misery that they’ve foisted on humanity for far too long in this insidious death-culture of an existence, the sooner we can get back to the pure joy of being that is the only ‘condition’ that the true ‘God’ ever intended.

  57. Ant said,

    June 5, 2008 at 6:13 pm

    The perfect demonstration of enlightenment comes at the end of the first Matrix movie, where Neo sees everything “as it is” (raw information). His awareness has expanded to such an extent that he transcends the illusion completely. As such, he observes even the bullets which are coming toward him and, whilst they would have affected any ordinary person, Neo is able to stop them in their tracks. They are meaningless to him. Then notice the strain, effort and anger as Agent Smith tries to impose his will (the system) upon Neo. Notice also the effortlessness with which Neo blocks his attacks. Agent Smith has no power whatsoever. And when Neo does finally respond (as opposed to react), it is decisive. At this point the Agents themselves become fearful, knowing that they have no power over an awakened mind.

    None of us can be so effective in a physical fight, of course, but we CAN be as powerful and invulnerable as Neo in a far more meaningful way. One has only to see the illusion for what it is and cease to derive one’s identity from it. Whatever remains will be your authentic self, regardless of what word you use to describe it. Know that YOU are the ultimate reality. There is no authority outside of yourself. How can there be? Know also that we are all ultimately “The One,” so don’t strain to wake-up those who wish to pretend otherwise. That’s their right. That’s the very game we’re playing!

    As Bill Hicks said, “It’s just a choice, right now, between fear and love.”

  58. Brian said,

    June 5, 2008 at 8:16 pm

    Ant, now that’s more like it my man. That’s what I’m talkin’ about. It makes me wonder if your prior posts are ‘victims’, so to speak, of the multi-meanings of the semantics

  59. brontebaxter said,

    June 5, 2008 at 8:51 pm

    No, Brian, it isn’t just semantics. Ant demonstrates the thinking of those who have woken up to a large degree and then been railroaded by a false teacher. It’s like the movie Vanilla Sky, where Tom Cruise keeps thinking he’s woken up, only to find yet again that he’s still dreaming.

    Anyone who glorifies hive thinking isn’t getting it, no matter how nicely they expound the importance of seeing through “the illusion.” Ant’s idea of the illusion is that the personal ego is illusion. In thinking that, she is surrendering the part of her being that has the power of choice and of changing the direction of our future. That’s why so many teachers ultimately teach her doctrine (Tolle, Eastern gurus, and others): it disempowers people at the same time as making them think they’ve been cosmically empowered. I believe it was Icke who said that the best way to make someone a slave is to convince them that they’re free.

    Bronte

  60. brontebaxter said,

    June 5, 2008 at 10:53 pm

    Rob, you wrote:

    “Surrendering the ego to another ego is very unhealthy. But there’s another ‘I am’ – the larger one (“I am large, I contain multitudes,” wrote Walt Whitman) with whom we rarely communicate: the little “I am” is scared to death of it.”

    What’s happening here that I think you are missing is that there isn’t only one kind of ego surrender that’s unhealthy, the one you identify (surrendering to another ego). Even more unhealthy – completely self-destructive, in fact – is surrendering to the collective ego of the fourth dimension, the “cosmic consciousness” that is the collective of the gods. It is this that is attempting to assimilate all beings.

    The mouthpieces for the agenda of the fourth dimension – the Eastern gurus, Tolle, so many other teachers today – seduce us into thinking that surrendering to the “Oneness” of the consciousness that maintains the universe is uniting ourselves with our Source. But it is only uniting ourselves with the consciousness that has hijacked the original beautiful ideal of creation, which included none of this suffering and death that the fourth dimension maintains and thrives on.

    Any teaching that tells us that the key to ending suffering is to accept life as it is, is a teaching of the fourth dimensional entities. They need our approval, our acceptance, our permission, to continue running our show, to get away with the breed-and-devour agenda that is the operational mantra of this universe. There is a better way. God intended a better life for us. We can never achieve it as long as we mistake the fourth dimension’s “cosmic consciousness” for union of our minds with our true Source.

    The union with our true source is not a surrender and not an assimilation. It involves no loss of personal ego but an enhancement of it. Union with the Source (which is Infinite Consciousness, the First Consciousness, way beyond the fourth dimension that mandates suffering and death) – such union is the essence of personal empowerment. We are personally filled with power, consciousness, creativity and knowledge from the Infinite, as we bask in our Source’s unlimited bliss. We see through the illusion, not of personal self (which is no illusion but a sacred expression/extension of the infinite). Rather, we see through the illusion that the law of death that runs this world must be accepted and obeyed.

    In the true union, we see life as the creation of consciousness, and recognize that our personal consciousness is creating every moment of our experience, albeit unknowingly. We recognize that by taking charge of our thoughts and rooting out our self-defeating attitudes, we can consciously create our life to align with and express joy, love, freedom, abundance, healthy, harmony, and eternal life – qualities innate to our Source.

    The illusion we must see through to be free is that the world as it is given to us must be accepted, the illusion that this 3D reality is as good as it gets. It isn’t enough to see through the evil of the New World Order, or the Iraq occupation, or to understand that we are more than our senses and the content of our consciousness. All that is only going part way, partial waking up. We have to see further: that the fundamental operational plan for material life, that ordains we must destroy others to live, and that we ourselves in time must submit to our own destruction – we must see that that plan is based on an agenda of beings in the fourth dimension who call themselves our gods, who speak through the world’s scriptures, and who have lived off the sacrifice of our blood and the absorption of our energy since the dawn of human history.

    Freedom requires seeing this deeply. If we stop short of the total truth, guess where we stop: right in the middle of the fourth dimension. “Congratulations, you have arrived,” they tell us. “Welcome to enlightenment! You are free!” But we have only woken inside another dream.

    This is the essential message I started this blog to write about. It’s something I didn’t understand til recently, when I woke to the fact that in spite of my knowledge of the conspiracy and the fourth dimension, I wasn’t liberated but still moving around inside another dream. I was still servicing the powers-that -be, not running my own life. I never let myself be assimilated, but neither had I broken free of all the habits and beliefs that limited me, which supported the fourth dimension and upheld its influence in my life.

    I still have not broken free of every limitation, but I’m working on my habits and ingrained attitudes and so much freer, happier and empowered than I used to be. It’s becoming easy to create through conscious thought, to direct my life where I want it to go. That couldn’t happen while I was still willing to accept suffering and death as essentials of existence.

    Rob, it isn’t true what you say, that “the little I-am is scared to death of the big I-am.” Fourth-dimension teachers teach that doctrine. In fact, the small self intrinsically knows it is one with the big self, with its Source. That’s why it is so easy for the small self to slip into it when we withdraw our attention from external objects and let our minds settle within. We go right into our alpha state, our state of inner bliss, our ground state, our Infinite. Like a wave settling down into its very own sea. There is no “scared to death” going on here. It is natural and effortless, a settling into our essential, unlimited nature, which dwells in all things.

    The “scared to death of the big Self” you refer to is actually a healthy, self-defense response of the personal ego to assimilation by the fourth dimension. Our instincts tell us not to trust the teaching that we should just surrender. The “big Self” they present to us as the “I am multitudes,” which they call the ultimate reality, is only the reality of the multitudes they control and/or have assimilated. When they say “big Self,” they are not talking about the sacred Source within us, Infinite Consciousness, which supports our individuality, independent thinking and free choice.

    We naturally have a fear of the surrender that gurus and teachers like Tolle promote because it is, in fact, the destruction of something so precious: our beautiful, delicate soul. Or rather, not the destruction (because consciousness can never be destroyed) but the complete assimilation, by the fourth dimension.

    We can recognize that the surrender they teach, Rob, cannot be union with our true Source, because Infinite Love has no idea of death and lack and destroying, all the things that the fourth dimension thrives on and tells us we must accept before we can find the freedom they promise. Any “freedom” or “enlightenment” based on acceptance of the breed-and-devour mentality that maintains life on this planet is the “freedom” of assimilation with the will of the gods. It is not union with our true God, our interior Infinite Consciousness, that has no idea of death, that shines through all beings, awaiting the day when we will see the profound difference between It and the illusions the fourth dimension engenders, giving the boot to our permissions for fourth-dimensional reign, and actualizing the original, joyous divine intention for creation, which is paradise.

    Bronte

  61. Jim Porter said,

    June 6, 2008 at 12:40 am

    Bronte says: Now I have a question for you guys. Is this point coming across? Because it seems to me although I’ve tried to say it lots of different ways, you readers commenting here still think I’m identifying ego with “bad” and big self with “good.” Jim, your last post sounded that way to me.

    I thought you were suggesting that some elements of the ego are undesirable (like wanting a bigger car) while others are essential (like having the determination to act against injustice). You make it clear that you believe the ego is vital for our future. Is it what drives us? Your explanation of the three ‘selves’ is helpful, thanks.

  62. David said,

    June 6, 2008 at 6:07 am

    It seems to me that the natural life cycles of the earth and the mortality of our human bodies can only be a problem for what is called the ego. By ego I do not mean an actual entity that has a real existence. Ego is nothing more than a misunderstanding; a case of mistaken identity; the misidentification of the spirit or true self with its psycho-physical vehicles.

    Perhaps I misunderstand you. Do you mean to say that paradise would be eternal life on earth…with no lunch!

  63. David said,

    June 6, 2008 at 7:44 am

    I also want to say that the gurus and religions that tell us to surrender our evil ego or self to their gods, or to the one, or whatever, are really saying that we ordinary folk are the cause of the problems in the human world. But in fact the cause of the problems in our world are the gangs of elite criminals who have always run our world. Today it is the merchants; before them it was the aristocracies.
    The ordinary people of the world have always been slaves, to one degree or another. It seems to me that the people queuing at the toll booths on their way to work these days are no less slaves than the medieval serfs queing at the toll gates to a medieval market town or city. It is heart breaking that we accept this state of affairs as normality.
    Now they are going to tax us for breathing! I used to joke to people that one day they would put meters on our noses and charge us for oxygen…but now I see they will charge us for exhaling carbon dioxide instead. Their evil knows no bounds or limits.
    I know I am a bit off-topic here so I’ll stop there.

  64. C. said,

    June 6, 2008 at 8:26 am

    Okay, this is where I don’t agree so much anymore and can’t stay silent.

    Bronte you said: “….We have to see further: that the fundamental operational plan for material life, that ordains we must destroy others to live, and that we ourselves in time must submit to our own destruction – we must see that that plan is based on an agenda of beings in the fourth dimension who call themselves our gods,….”

    It almost sounds like there is a belief that everything in the fourth dimension is nothing but gods with an agenda…I beg to differ. It would be like saying that everything in 3D is nothing but thiefs, murderers and con artists.
    It is my belief that those “gods” are not even fully of fourth dimension but rather are hanging, if you will, at the doorway. Guarding it, trying to prevent us from accessing it, and they succeed only to the extent that we have not fully intergrated the 3D dimension, ego included ( although I’m getting very confused by the use of this term…like when you say a word so many times it loses meaning.) If there is still something from the 3rd that pulls at us, that makes us lose or leak power at it’s mention, we are just sent back “down”, in a manner of speaking. But just like “bouncers” at an adult club, if you fill the requirement, in this case being an adult of 18 ( or 21 in the US) years old or more, we can walk by the bouncers and thumb our noses at them. HA! They’re stuck at the door, outside the party!! Sure, they act like gods if you want to get in despite not being legal, you may be able to bribe et all…
    And if there are some of them within Fourth dimension, again, their task is to make sure you did not come in with fake IDs. A few tests of convictions are then applied ( metaphorically). And like all tests, if the lesson was learned (in this case that Death is a 3D illusion or misnomer) we are free to keep on partying!

    ( I kinda wrote this in reverse- originally the above part was at the end, but I thought putting it on top would be better in order to set the context of my “grain of salt” better.)

    Life is constant motion, constant change. None of us would, or could even exist if that were not the case, if the concept of death/change/transformation was not active. There are millions of changes, “death” of something to become something else, every single hour of every single day. Each breath “kills”, or changes oxygen into carbon monoxide. Even time itself, the now moment is constantly dying to be reborn as the next now moment.

    We could not heal ourselves without “death” – we could not “kill” the virus, parasites microbes and bacteria that may infest our bodies, or any other “entities” that threatens us. We could not change the way things have been since what is could never die, never change. We could not learn. There would not be any births…there would be no motivation, no motion. Life, without death, without change, without transformation would not exist. Period.

    Everything we create automatically means destruction of something else. A banal analogy is the canvas of a painter- the minute one stroke of paint is applied on the canvas, the canvas that was “died” and became a painting in the making. Each stroke of the brush transforms the canvas, effectively “killing” what was in order to give birth to what it now is. And then I’m not even going into the process that created the canvas to start with…and the brushes, and the paint… Everything becomes dependent on something else to constantly transform into something else so that experiencing and CREATING can be made possible.

    Without the principle of change and transformation, none of that would be even possible. No art, no museum, no houses (a forest had to be killed to give the space for it, steel had to be transformed in to pillars, powder cement had to be blended with water, the death of two way of being, in order to create the cement needed to bond the material, trees must die to provide lumber and so on). Conversely if we could not kill weeds we would be overrun by them. There is just no way around it even if we don’t kill to eat.

    ONLY the ego, only the personality programmed into us, either actively or passively, directly or indirectly, and as relates to survival in this immediate environment, ever “dies,” and it is the only part that does fear death. But it has no more use and function in the higher dimensions than a car. That’s why it is called a “vehicle.” We are not our bodies, anymore than we are our cars.

    Look in nature, in the physical dimension – every part of every process feeds into another one… the dead tree provides shelter for small animals, food for others… decaying trees provides nutrients to the soil so that new seeds have what they need to keep the cycles and processes going… the seed form “dies” as a seed in the process of becoming a tree, etc. Nature is very efficient. NOTHING ( organic) goes to waste.

    Now, some would like me to believe that those “aliens,” or dark entities have such power as to do all this? That it isn’t natural? That all of 3D is nothing but their creation? Here’s a secret- they can’t create squat! They can only distort, divert, manipulate, abuse. It may be the only domain “they” can operate within but it surely is not purely created by “them.”

    I cannot maintain the idea that “death” in the third dimension can be eliminated in any fashion, way or form any more that I can stop the wind from blowing. Both have a purpose in their respective dimension of existence/experience. In the 4th, there is no wind either, should I start saying that wind comes from dark entities that want to steal my hat and mess my hair up, or make it hard for me to move forward? They can make the wind more of a challenge for me, but surely they did not create it anymore than they created Death. They are incapable of creating and that is why they need us.

    Death will always be part of three dimensional experience, as long as there is a 3D. It’s the 3D manifestation of something that is pretty constant. In the Fourth dimension, the concept of Death as we have known in the Third, is no longer valid. Because at that level we can see that nothing dies, but rather changes vibration, either evolving or devolving ( higher or lower vibration), either voluntarily and willingly or by force. Nothing can ever be eliminated, only transformed. Even the physical bodies we leave behind becomes something else that continues to feed and contribute to the cycle of life in 3D.

    Imagine if nothing would decay… there would soon be no more room to even live. We would suffocate. (Just look at what trashed plastic is doing to our world!)

    We are not in the process of changing the third dimension into the fourth – we are MOVING INTO the fourth. We are changing our 3D perception for 4D+. And we cannot eliminate the three steps below the fourth and hope to remain stable in our ascension – fourth is overlaying the third… kind of like a box with a box inside… remember those Russian dolls. One is built upon the other, expanded.

    I will agree that death is not necessary for human beings….I will agree that as we move into fourth-dimension perspective, our lifespans can be considerably extended and that death, or transformation, will come in a more harmonious way, since we will not resist the change but welcome it, when we are ready for it.

    It’s us that are evolving beyond three dimensions that need to understand that and stop oozing loosh for every apparent “death.”
    It’s us, from a 3D perspective, that attaches emotional response to death, change. We get attached to people, situations etc… and we want to stop the process of life in order to feel secure. Again that is a dependence on “outside” validation and illusions. No security ever come from “outside.” If it seems to, it quickly becomes a prison that stifles growth and the process of life.

    Death is not “terminal” – it’s transformation, it’s change, and in my opinion, without the integration of this concept we cannot hope to reside permanently in 4D since every time we’ll encounter the changing vibration of a living entity (transformation) be it human, animal or plant, we allow for our own vibration to lower back in 3D perspective. We grieve. We doubt. We fear the unknown… we cling to what was, what could have been.

    Life is not about what happens but how we react to what happens… We can easily chose to celebrate Death, as some more “primitive” cultures have done, or we can chose to fear it, fight it, resist it, and eliminate it.
    The knowledge that NOTHING dies, but everything changes is required. Death is an illusion, separation is an illusion.

    That being said, I don’t mean to imply a justification of gratuitous murder and slaughter, gluttony, war etc. Nor do I deny the atrocities fearful people inflict on each other. But again, Death is not the culprit to get rid of – fear is. (BTW, F.E.A.R. = False Evidence Appearing Real).

    As we evolve, hopefully we will learn that death is not a punishment (as implied by the term death penalty) but rather a graduation – we have reached another grade, another level. Death has it’s place just like everything else in life, and it’s a matter of keeping it in perspective.

    Since we are, in essence and energy, eternal, change is a great blessing. Imagine how it would be if nothing died, nothing decomposed, nothing, ever, ever changed. How boring a life of eternity would quickly become! What would motivate us to do anything at all? We could just put it off forever. There would be no births either.

    I understand that we are straddling dimensions, but that is mainly only humans. To grieve over the fact that animals continue to do what they do is a waste of energy.

    A few days ago, me and my dogs came face to face with a coyote. The coyote managed to attack the younger dog which happened to be limping a bit because of a muscle strain. My dog is okay, only a few superficial flesh wounds so don’t worry! :) But my point is that Life/Nature has it’s own “quality control” if you will. The coyote did not seek to get the healthy dog, or me. Just the weak link.

    Should I begrudge him this and wish an end to all death or even seek his death? I don’t think so because most likely this coyote hadn’t eaten in days, perhaps weeks. Animals only kill as they need and can. For every prey they catch, ten get away. They are not greedy and very seldom greedy gluttons, like we humans can be. As traumatizing as it may have been to me and my puppy, the coyote did nothing against Nature. He just fulfilled his purpose, like all other animals instinctively do. They are crucial in the “natural selection” process.

    In nature you see very few gratuitous death- only the weak and sick. You’ll rarely see killing for the sake of killing except in the animals that are sick, demented or very fearful, still it’s mostly for protection, it’s misguided perhaps but that’s it. It’s not out of hatred or differences over dogma. They also very rarely attack, unless under duress, and only if they estimate they have a chance at “winning.” Most animals will not waste energy on a futile quarry.

    Isn’t it the same thing that “dark entities” do? They cannot go after strong, aware and awake ones because they don’t have that “permission.” And if they manage to trick us into giving it, again, it’s about survival of the fittest. Life corrects and regulates itself automatically. So it sems to me that the solution to all this is, again, a matter of reclaiming one’s own power.

    It may sound callous to some of you that I hold this belief and understanding about death, and you may be right ( not that I’m callous but that I hold an erroneous concept). But I think life in this level (4D) is about transformation and co-operation, not elimination.

    Either way, nothing can be destroyed but everything does and must change. Everything must die to what was in order to be reborn to what is. The extent to which one is afraid of death, is the extent to which one is afraid of change and doesn’t trust or understand the process.

    Thanks.

  65. Brian said,

    June 6, 2008 at 8:37 am

    Bronte, It’s funny you should say that. As we’re going going along through this very instructive discussion I want so much for everyone to ‘get it’ that when I read Ant’s post it was wishful thinking on my part because later on while I was driving to work I said to myself, ‘wait a minute, that Ant had me goin for a while there, but what he/she( here we go again-“Ant, which pronoun do I use for you?”) is forgetting is that for Neo the question must be asked, ‘OK, that’s all fine and well, but whadya gonna DO now? Did you think that you had ‘arrived’ at the ultimate state of enlightenment and that now you don’t have to ‘do’ anything anymore but just ‘be’ instead? This is like the basketball team that built a huge lead going into the fourth quarter and started to let up thinking they had the game won. Slowly but surely the other team chipped away at the lead, creating a furious momentum until lo and behold, they tied the score and all of a sudden it was a ballgame again. They would have had the game won if they just kept ‘the pedal to the metal’. And this is your team we’re talkin about here. Call it Team Humanity. We are awakening. We know there’s a ruse goin on but we have to understand the full extent of it. We have to keep playin hard until the final whistle . It ain’t over till it’s over(ok, that’s enough cliches, I promise) Maybe even a better way of putting it is getting over the hump(ok so I lied) and then just keep on keepin’ on( I guess I just can’t help myself) The point being that the’hump’ is a metaphor for the mother of all illusions-mortality. This is incontrovertible. When you really feel the truth of this as what I would term ‘an exquisite sense of keen awareness’ then you realize a certain anticipation that seems to spur the imagination as to how a transformation from inhabiting a ‘mortal coil’ to your ‘habitat’ being of an immortal nature might occur. This ride is truly a thrilling one when it’s your ride. You are the driver and when you ‘arrive’ somewhere you might stay awhile but there’s always gonna be another destination. Life is supposed to be a continuous experience of wonderous excitement, not a placid state of imperviousness. Keep it alive.

  66. Brian said,

    June 6, 2008 at 10:09 am

    I need to include an important amendment to part of a sentence in my last post. What I meant to say was ‘…how a transformation from inhabiting a ‘mortal coil’ to your ‘habitat’ being of an immortal nature BYPASSING the dying process altogether might occur.’ And to C. I want to say that this has absolutely nothing to do with any fear of dying, but rather a recognition that death is a detestable curse imposed upon mankind. You have bought into this false paradigm hook, line, and sinker. They’ve got you right where they want you with your resignation and justification of its culture. Even using the word ‘transformation’ in the context of extended lifespans is misguided. The term ‘extended lifespans’ validates a notion of time which suggests that something outside of our control necessarily dictates that condition. We need to trust in the power of our imagination to choose what kind of reality we wish to inhabit. For that matter, the true power of imagination renders the existence of ‘dimensions’ as being conceptual and virtually irrevelant. So you see, there is nothing necessary about ‘death’, or ‘transformation’, or whatever you want to call it.

  67. C. said,

    June 6, 2008 at 10:25 am

    I just re-read some stuff…

    Bronte: …..”Freedom is not amalgamation with the fourth dimension, which is what Tolle recruits for: the consciousness that approves all that is, including death, energy siphoning, and destruction. Freedom is to claim the power of our personhood, the power of our unique consciousness, and to mindfully connect it with the Infinite Love at our core, the highest field of consciousness that supports all life and never supports destruction. ” post#51

    I absolutely agree with you Bronte on the part about freedom being the ability to claim the power of our personhood, of our unique individuality along with our divinity, and connection to Source. ( 3Dimensions? …Holy trinity?…hummmm….the son (or daughter), holy spirit, and the Father?
    Could these terms all have been “immature” ay of communicating what was not fully understood, what we had not the words and language to explain, so we used childish metaphores that we clung to even when new language became available? But that’s besides the point…sorry…just got inspired all of a sudden! :) )

    I haven’t read Tolle so I can’t comment on his material. Based on what is attributed to him here…I wonder…Bronte I do think you are right in your estimation that coming from depression, the chances of his inspiration coming from “higher sources” is dubious, at the very least it’s possibly “polluted”.
    I think that 3/4 of what Tolle is attributed to have written is not that off either…( of course it could be cheese, but still…).

    The main difference, or distortion I read here is that he’d like for us to accept destruction..notice the focus is on “destruction”….not CREATIVITY.
    Of course destruction is unberable to a souled disconnected human trying to Be! ( we’re not a human “animal”, but a human BEING.) and it would indeed provoke a reaction of fear…just what “they” want!

    You know what they say…change the way you look at things and the thing you are looking at changes. Change your perspective…look from “higher”.
    There is much truth to this, and most dismiss as “too easy…smells “fishy”. Yes it can, depending on how you look at it! LOL!

    There are two sides to every medal..we do live in a duality pardigm.

    The 3D anchored person will see either Destruction ( one side) or Creativity
    ( the other side).
    The 4D person will also see the metaphorical medal. It will see both Destruction AND Creativity as the two interconnected parts of a whole -the medal.

    4D means four perspective if you will, the three perspective mentionned above: those of Destruction, Creativity, the whole, PLUS the one of the observer. That’s four dimensions. This is applicable to all observable dualities.
    An animal basically only has 2D of experience..a plant, 1dimension.

    At least, that’s how I understand it.
    I think that sometimes we have a habit of desiring to make things more complicated and mystical than they have to be.
    It’s just more fun and makes it last longer! : )

  68. C. said,

    June 6, 2008 at 11:07 am

    Okay, I must answer to you Brian…and before anyone asks…I’m female.

    “C. I want to say that this has absolutely nothing to do with any fear of dying, but rather a recognition that death is a detestable curse imposed upon mankind. You have bought into this false paradigm hook, line, and sinker. They’ve got you right where they want you with your resignation and justification of its culture”.

    I have bought into nothing. But I can’t convince you of that and won’t try.
    I abide by the rule that when one points the finger, one has three pointed right back at him. But I’ll look into it if you do! :)

    Still I do agree fully with what you said = “Life is supposed to be a continuous experience of wonderous excitement, not a placid state of imperviousness.”

    A while back I was following what looked to be a great web site full of spiritual information, but I kept coming across thism entality that, like you said Brian, just promoted the maintenance of a state of imperviouness towards Life. That our imagination was our escape hatch and in some dimension, whatever we imagined was real. It also said that in the instense one finding him/herself in an apparent commitment, to just let it go…in some other dimension it was being fulfilled, it’s just that you did not choose to follow that road in this dimension and should not worry. It promoted revelling in imaginary worlds and realities as a valid way of living life…since like it said life is nothing but a dream, all one has to do is dream.
    He overvalued imagination.

    I attempted to discuss this with the author and he became quickly passive aggressive, using double meaning sentences, and saying that if I saw a trouble in that, it was because I was troubled…I was “projecting”.
    So I went and check my projector..

    Well I don’t project anything his way anymore. Because, like you,
    I know there is more dimensions than four. It would be like arriving to the beach and saying there is nothing more to see in the whole wide world. So just play in the sand, divert and amuse yourself and don’t be concerned about what goes on “down there”.

    BTW, I did mention that I believe that Human Beings are not “locked into Death”, that it is in our ability to have a life as long as we wish it to be..but that is still only in theory. We have managed to greatly expand life expectancy in the last two thosand years, almost trippled it in fact, despite the constant interferences of “dark ones” so they must not be that powerful. I see no reason to stop expanding our lifespan now!!

    And like someone said- I don’t even remember if it’s on this discussion or somewhere else I read today, sorry- if we look at it honestly, we are better off, stronger and more powerful as individuals now than we have EVER been
    in our history. So we can’t possibly be that far off the “right path”.

    Does that mean that I should start

  69. C. said,

    June 6, 2008 at 11:10 am

    no, it means I forgot to erase that last sentence…LOL ; )

  70. C. said,

    June 6, 2008 at 11:37 am

    Brian, me again…
    “Life is supposed to be a continuous experience of wonderous excitement, not a placid state of imperviousness.”

    …neither is it supposed to be a constant stuggle to try’n change what is not within our power (yet, at least) to change….instead of changing our perspective of it and reaction to it which causes us to loose power in a futile endeavor.

    I tried to change the unchageable, but I only managed to hurt myself badly in the process.

    If you have the power to change the whole cycle of life and death Brian, please! …..what are you waiting for?

    Of course everything I say (write) is easilly linked to what one or another misleading guru said, every single word in all this page is, if one wants to try…what was/is misleading was the context in which it was applied, or the way it was applied.

  71. brontebaxter said,

    June 6, 2008 at 12:33 pm

    Wow. You guys are pretty amazing, and this is an amazing discussion. David, you say in a few pithy sentences what C. expanded into a well-argued essay. So okay, let me roll up my sleeves and have a swing at the ball, which now lies in a most fascinating position.

    C., I’m going to quote excerpts from your essay in order to respond to your main points. Here goes:

    “It almost sounds like there is a belief that everything in the fourth dimension is nothing but gods with an agenda…I beg to differ. It would be like saying that everything in 3D is nothing but thiefs, murderers and con artists. It is my belief that those “gods” are not even fully of fourth dimension but rather are hanging, if you will, at the doorway.”

    Interesting concept, and I don’t dispute it’s a possibility. But how we rank or count dimensions is probably a relative thing. What you call higher-level fourth, someone else might call fifth. I just use the term “fourth dimension” because it’s one most people recognize as meaning the realm of entities unperceivable by the five senses.

    I don’t think we can reliably count dimensions until we’re conscious enough to directly perceive them all. Are there decent being above the fourth dimension level (or above the gateway to the fourth, as you prefer to count it)? I’m sure there are. If there is a continuum of good and bad on earth, it’s reasonable to assume there’s a similar continuum in dimensions we can’t see. But are the “good guys” jumping into the fray here on earth and getting ready to save us? No. They remain markedly silent – because, I think, this is OUR battle to fight. I think we’ll meet them when we win it. I also think they help and inspire us when we ask for that. But there are no channelers, writers or teachers I know of bringing through verbatim messages from the “good guys.” I believe this, because all I’ve read in those areas involves savior mentality, surrender mentality, and the like – not human empowerment.

    “Life is constant motion, constant change. None of us would, or could even exist if that were not the case.”

    We don’t need constant change to exist, although change is certainly a feature of life. Life would be boring if there weren’t change. But I disagree that “change needs to be constant.” Sometimes it’s refreshing and fun to just stop activity (change) and rest in the inner bliss. I think sometimes all creation might like to rest together, taking a nap on the lap of God, so to speak. Then when the children are rested, they can get up and run and play again.

    The scriptures speak of dissolution of the universe as a necessity. To me, it’s not a necessity by any means, but I do think we’ll always want to stop playing from time to time and just bask in our inner divine nature. That doesn’t have to be dissolution, it can be a cosmic sleep, after which all beings rise and start “doing” again.

    “the concept of death/change/transformation was not active. There are millions of changes, “death” of something to become something else, every single hour of every single day. Each breath “kills”, or changes oxygen into carbon monoxide.”

    I disagree that death is identical with change and transformation. Death is one kind of change. To say change is synonymous with death is like saying gardens are synonymous with turnips. Death is forced upon us. Much change/transformation can be freely chosen, and we can often influence the direction that change/transformation take, through our will. Death is not like that. It destroys the body whether its occupant wants that or not. This is a distinct and essential difference between death and change in general.

    Also, death entails the destruction of a living being that (usually) desires life. You can’t fairly equate it with “the death of carbon dioxide” or many of the other equations for death your essay lists. This is another important distinction you are missing in your argument.

    “We could not heal ourselves without ‘death’ – we could not ‘kill’ the virus, parasites microbes and bacteria that may infest our bodies, or any other ‘entities’ that threatens us.”

    A fully empowered person, acting from a total connection with their higher consciousness, the Source, would not have to kill parasites, microbes or bacteria to stay healthy. Their bodies, running on the Infinite, would be impervious to such attacks, so there’d be no need to kill microscopic lifeforms to stay alive.

    “We could not change the way things have been since what is could never die, never change. We could not learn.”

    Again, you’re putting death and change together as identical and you’re thereby confusing the two, drawing conclusions about death that are only true for change in general. I agree change is a good thing, but not death, not destruction of lifeforms.

    “There would not be any births.”

    Maybe there wouldn’t need to be, once all the entities who wish to live on this planet have incarnated here. If they didn’t have to die, they wouldn’t have to reborn again. If the Infinite wants to keep creating new souls (and I don’t know, maybe it likes to do that), it can certainly also provide a habitat for those beings to live in. If earth gets too crowded, the Infinite has plenty of other planets, I’m sure, to choose from.

    Am I suggesting then there’d be no sex? I think sex can be a phenomenon of spiritual union, distinct from its function as a maker of babies. If the earth didn’t need more babies (that is, if all the souls who wanted to come here were already incarnate and physically immortal), I expect lovers would still make love for the sake of the beauty of the union.

    Wouldn’t we have to have babies, because the body is programmed to do that? Our bodies are hooked up to the grid, and therefore “driven” to sex, in their current state. When we learn to take them off the grid and hook them up to the Infinite, not only will our bodies not have to decay or die but they won’t be “driven” to sex by uncontrollable hormones. We’ll make love when we choose to, “when the spirit moves us,” so to speak. If people still choose to have babies after we all are united with our inner Infinite Consciousness, it would be because there’s a way for those babies to sustain life living here. We wouldn’t desire babies (in that state of consciousness) if there weren’t a place with plenty of room for them. Maybe, instead of there being no more births, births will keep on happening and mankind will migrate to other life-sustaining planets. It’s hard to say how we’ll work things out, because until we’re all in that consciousness together, we don’t know all the harmonious possibilities that await us.

    “Everything we create automatically means destruction of something else. A banal analogy is the canvas of a painter- the minute one stroke of paint is applied on the canvas, the canvas that was “died” and became a painting in the making. Each stroke of the brush transforms the canvas, effectively “killing” what was in order to give birth to what it now is.”

    Again, an unfair comparison, that overlooks the distinct difference between “death” (where a conscious individual is required to surrender its physical vehicle, like it or not) and “change.” In this example, the canvas is not an living, individual consciousness with a will that is being forced to do something it doesn’t want to experience. So no harm is created in doing things to the canvas, because you are not conflicting with any of its will or desires. That’s not true when you do things to living life forms, which do have desires (we know they have desires by the things we see them do – a plant wants room to grow and touch the light, for instance).

    “None of that would be even possible…no art, no museum, no houses (a forest had to be killed to give the space for it, steel had to be transformed in to pillars, powder cement had to be blended with water, the death of two way of being, in order to create the cement needed to bond the material, trees must die to provide lumber and so on).”

    A house built of trees that were killed to build the house is a very different thing from a pillar of steel that was made of mixing metals. The trees were forced to give up their life – their home, their bodies, their vehicles of expression in this world were stripped away from their consciousness. Research has shown that plant life has feelings. Bring a burning match closer and closer to the leaf of a plant, and the electrodes attached to the leaf measure extreme and growing anxiety. (I believe “The Secret Life of Plants” talks about these studies.) There are ways to have houses without taking the life of trees. We just have to be creative enough to find them.

    “Conversely if we could not kill weeds we would be overrun by them. There is just no way around it even if we don’t kill to eat.”

    I still pull up weeds in my garden, and I still eat. But I think that in the world we will create when humans learn to embody and express their Infinite Consciousness, there will be so much harmony between all things that we won’t have desires at odds with other beings’ desires. We’ll be too connected to have that. Plants and animals will share in the connected consciousness, and won’t tussle and compete the way they presently do. Dandelions will know people don’t want them in their yards, and they won’t grow there. So no one will ever want to rip them up.

    When we live from the level of our connectedness in the Source, our desires won’t conflict with other people’s or with those of plants or animals, anymore than people who love each other in a family desire things that will hurt their family members. If one of them has a need or wish, all of the family members respond to support it. This is very different from the kind of Oneness-consciousness gurus and spiritual teachers promote, which includes acceptance of life as it is today where things devour each other to survive. Connection to the Source provides an entirely different perspective, an entirely different kind of Oneness.

    “ONLY the ego, only the personality programmed into us, either actively or passively, directly or indirectly, and as relates to survival in this immediate environment, ever “dies,” and it is the only part that does fear death. But it has no more use and function in the higher dimensions than a car. That’s why it is called a “vehicle.” We are not our bodies, anymore than we are our cars.”

    No no no, C. You’ve bought into the lies of the fourth dimension (excuse me, I’ll still call it that just because we need some kind of term, and most people use “fourth dimension” to describe the realm of the gods/dark lords/energy vampires). This statement of yours above is their KEY illusion! They desperately want us to see death as acceptable, because then we will do nothing to stop it, to correct this fundamental crack in the universe which allows them to maintain their perverted lordship. They NEED you to think that your ego/small self is useless and a product of ignorance, no more a part of the real you than your car. Only then will you willingly surrender it, and they can’t fully take over until you do that. They preach to you that it’s foolish of the ego to be upset about death, because then you’ll never lift a hand or a thought or a determination to stop their harvesting your body or other people’s life after life. You’ll play right into their game, argue for its validity even. Just as you are doing here.

    “Look in nature, in the physical dimension – every part of every process feeds into another one… the dead tree provides shelter for small animals, food for others… decaying trees provides nutrients to the soil so that new seeds have what they need to keep the cycles and processes going… the seed form “dies” as a seed in the process of becoming a tree, etc.”

    Yes, agreed, everything in nature feeds on other lifeforms. The point I’m making is that there is a better way. Small animals don’t need trees to die so they can stay dry and warm (as if a tree has to give its precious life for something that can be handled many other ways!). Seeds aren’t “dying,” C., they’re just starting to live when they open and dig roots into the earth. Again, you’re unfairly equating “change” with “death,” and they are distinctly different. Death is one form of change, a very toxic form, the kind that causes sadness and suffering and that strips a soul of its sacred vehicle of expression, the most precious thing it ever owned in this world. Death is a travesty. To say all change is death is like saying all sports are baseball.

    “Now, some would like me to believe that those “aliens,” or dark entities have such power as to do all this? That it isn’t natural? That all of 3D is nothing but their creation? Here’s a secret- they can’t create squat! They can only distort, divert, manipulate, abuse. It may be the only domain ‘they’ can operate within but it surely is not purely created by ‘them.'”

    You could be right there, C. Hard to say. Through all the world’s scriptures, the fourth dimension tells us it created us and this world. Is it true, or is that something they say to make us feel we have to accept the world as it’s given to us? I don’t know yet. It’s an interesting question.

    “Should I start saying that wind comes from dark entities that want to steal my hat and mess my hair up, or make it hard for me to move forward?”

    The dark entities don’t probably have a lot to gain by messing up your hair. They have a helluva lot to gain by taking your life force.

    “Surely they did not create it anymore than they created Death. They are incapable of creating and that is why they need us.”

    Surely dark entities DID create death, because Infinite Love could not have created it. Why do you believe they’re incapable of creating? Every personal consciousness, every ego, is endowed with the ability to create. Animals create nests, or a path through the brush to the water. Plants create a crack in the cement through which they can shoot up and grow, or a bend in their branches so they can reach beyond a shadow they’re in and better touch the sunlight. Cement doesn’t create, nor desks, nor telephones. Inanimate objects don’t have a personal ego, so they don’t exercise desire and choice. Living beings have an ego, and so they do.

    The dark lords are no different because they, too, have an ego. They’re capable of creating but sit back and siphon instead, being just lazy, or forgetful. They’d rather you give your life force to them than do the work of accessing the infinite energy within themselves. Maybe they haven’t forgotten and aren’t lazy – maybe they’re scared. They know how out of harmony they are, and maybe they’re afraid of the purification, the rehabilitation, that connecting again to the Source would entail. Kind of like a person who’s been eating a a really crappy diet for a really long time is afraid of eating pure because of the cleansing reaction that will mean they have to go through.

    “I will agree that death is not necessary for human beings….I will agree that as we move into fourth-dimension perspective, our lifespans can be considerably extended and that death, or transformation, will come in a more harmonious way, since we will not resist the change but welcome it, when we are ready for it.”

    Now this brings up an interesting point, and that is the “harmonious way” of leaving this planet. Death is not it. Death is a destruction of a precious vehicle that need not be destroyed. At the same time, it is certainly reasonable to assume that no one would want to remain rooted to this planet in their physical body forever. The solution? Take off and leave when you want to, and return when you like. Express in physical form when you wish to, and when you want to move through the dimensions without the body, do that. How to accomplish this?

    You would do it by consciously raising the frequency of the body to where it turns into light, then continuing to raise the frequency until that light turns into pure thought. As a thought, you can go where you wish and come back and re-manifest in physical form whenever you wish. You could even learn to go to another place in the universe, without our sort of atmosphere, and manifest your body there incorporating the changes needed to thrive in that environment (for instance, you could swim beneath the sea without needing air). When the body is rewired to the Infinite, instead of to the grid (matrix) run by the fourth dimension, we can determine what we do with our bodies, how we do it, and when.

    Death is not something imposed on the physical form of the fully spiritually empowered: it never would touch them, unless they wanted it to. And why would they want it to? If they desired to leave this place, they could do it, packing up their body like a suitcase and traveling wherever they wish to go or explore. If and when they want a body again, they simply open “the suitcase” and reconstruct it.

    “It’s us that are evolving beyond three dimensions that need to understand that and stop oozing loosh for every apparent “death.” It’s us, from a 3D perspective, that attaches emotional response to death, change. We get attached to people, situations etc… and we want to stop the process of life in order to feel secure. Again that is a dependence on “outside” validation and illusions. No security ever come from “outside.” If it seems to, it quickly becomes a prison that stifles growth and the process of life.”

    Totally disagree, C. This is more bilge that the dark lords teach, one of the New Age doctrines. Thank God we can grieve over death! Thank God we can love enough to feel that attached! That attachment, that feeling of other people’s pain, is feeling our connectedness, our oneness. As someone wrote on this site, “the death of every man diminishes me.” To feel for the suffering of another is a mark of sensitive awareness, that knows we are connected to all things. An awareness that more than knows: it EXPERIENCES that reality.

    It is the moments when we lose a dear one to death, or see the unfair suffering of an innocent animal, or read about rapes of children or starvation or genocide — it is those moments that allow us to feel the wrongness of it all. In those moments, our complacency, that blinds us to the horrors we’ve accepted in this world, is temporarily lifted. We see life in this dimension for what it is: a harvesting of loosh, a cosmic barnyard where the owner can come in and take the life of anyone of us it wishes, whenever it so chooses, and under any circumstances. That is the situation we’ve allowed ourselves to get in by incarnating here. Only when another friend is slaughtered are our senses sharpened enough for us to see it. Then, very quickly, the comforting doctrines of religion take over and, and lull back to sleep, telling us it’s all for the best, and God in His infinite wisdom has His reasons, and at least she isn’t suffering now, and after all, it had to be her karma if she was allowed to experience that.

    All bullshit! All cosmic lies! And we will never defeat the system until we recognize this fundamental evil within it and take a stand against it in our minds and hearts. As long as we buy into death as a necessity, we will never get completely free. We’ll always be grumbling among ourselves about the farmer, but dutifully obeying his farm rules, and that will never get us out of these pens.

    “Life is not about what happens but how we react to what happens.”

    Not at all. Life is what we make happen. That’s what a self-actualized life is anyway, and that’s what I presume you’re attempting to define.

    “We can easily chose to celebrate Death, as some more “primitive” cultures have done,”

    You want us to do that, C.? Maybe you’d like us to practice blood sacrifice and rip the beating hearts out of our victims, too, the way those brilliant primitives who celebrated death did. Of course they celebrated death, the poor fools. Their religious leaders (emissaries of the dark lords) taught them to do that, just as their modern counterparts, the gurus and spiritual teachers, have taught you to embrace the same idea.

    “Or we can chose to fear death, fight it, resist it, and eliminate it.”

    That’s me, baby (minus the fear part).

    “Death is an illusion, separation is an illusion.”

    A comfortable New Age doctrine that takes away the sting. That sacred sting, that causes the awareness that lifts the veil from our eyes and dehypnotizes us.

    “Death has it’s place just like everything else in life, and it’s a matter of keeping it in perspective.”

    My goodness, you know you’d make a very good New Age guru, C. Wake up to the lie, kiddo!

    “Should I begrudge the coyote and wish an end to all death or even seek his death? I don’t think so because most likely this coyote hadn’t eaten in days, perhaps weeks.”

    Of course we don’t begrudge animals caught in the kill-to-eat-or-die law of the physical universe. We raise our consciousness, go inward to our Source, to purify our attitudes and find a better way. Once we find one, we can make things better for the animals as well, or maybe their consciousness will evolve with ours to themselves find a better way for themselves. There is a prophecy: “The wolf shall eat straw like the ox, and the lion shall lie down with the lamb.”

    Thanks for a great mental workout, C.! And thanks to all the posters here for their wonderful thoughts and input. We’re hashing out some very essential life issues here, discovering and examining subtle points that would be mentally invisible without this kind of honesty and debate.

    David, you’re funny: “eternal life and never any lunch”! We won’t desire lunch, when we live from our infinite nature. There are fun things to do and experience (much more creative and more pleasurable than eating) that the human mind hasn’t even conceived of yet. We’ll discover them, when we lift our minds above the visions we’ve been taught by the fourth dimension.

    Bronte

    • Ken Kojei said,

      November 24, 2013 at 6:08 am

      @Bronte: I think we too often overlook a most powerful and probably most comprehensive tool, beyond our five senses when it comes to apprehending reality. I’m referring to our emotions. Every notice what great lengths our society goes to in order to squash the power of our emotions? Here is my sense of the matter. Emotion, developed beyond it’s most reactionary manifestations is how we sense one another, especially when we develop and hone empathy and its eldest child, compassion. While we use the five senses to apprehend all that relates to material world phenomena, it is emotion that tunes us into all that exists when the lights go out. Light is a manifestation. It is produced by the efforts of primal consciousness, via it’s voice, meaning the logos or the word or OM or whatever that faculty is called in a particular culture. Yet, in those times when all the lights go out, indivduated beings apprehend each other via highly developed emotional senses. In that case the emotions represent an energy field which can be sensed by other energy fields. No words need to be spoken to know how somebody you truly love and are in sync with feels. So take that to the next level and you have understood power and intrinsic knowing. The emotional state can tell no lie. The highly developed emotional wisdom knows beyond our typical tools of knowing, most of which, in the world of Maya, really leave us with more guesses than facts.

      RE death: A good death returns you to primal consciousness. Primal consciousness in this case could be compared to your television or stereo system. The tuner is off, but just because it is doesn’t mean the program for listening or viewing doesn’t exist. There are no channels apparent when the box is in the off state but a push of a button brings it all to life. Since primal consciousness works proton of light to create the material realm in which it operates, when it chooses to, of course bodies mean very little. We take them on, we abandon them at will or by default. A bad death happens when the individuated mind is trapped in a dogma paradigm, especially a religious one. At the moment of death the mind create reality based on it’s religious expectations, most often based on its judgments, unless particular care has been taken to divest. Therefore every person creates the reality of his individual choosing or joins a collective who all agree on that reality. It remains illusory for the all until the moment they choose to accept the total darkness most have been taught to fear, that darkness, that stillness which is characteristic of primal consciousness in its state of rest. That said, once the individuate soul accept its grand true nature as the one primal consciousness, there is nothing to fight, nothing to fear. Death doesn’t exist. Only the choices of the primal consciousness exist.

  72. Brian said,

    June 6, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    C. I think that it is sufficient for us to at least never lose sight of our belief that we are on the right path towards realizing the power to change. The ultimate power to change the whole cycle of life and death was not an ability I claimed to have.It is simply a pondering. But what I ponder I intuit as being the hallmark of what we are terming as the ‘awakening’, or the ‘ascension’. And that the catalyst for this transfiguration is as Bronte has put it,’mindfully connecting with the infinite love at our core’, or as I’ve expressed it in previous writings, ‘Believing in the efficacy of our focused intent of love’- the key that unlocks the heart which opens the door to our true home. There’s a native-american phrase that translates this as ‘ Lalu-lalu. Cooma-si-ka’ I think this has been a very productive discussion. I hope to see you, Bronte, et al down the road Aloha and peace-out

  73. Ant said,

    June 6, 2008 at 7:05 pm

    David said something in one of his newsletters a while ago about how the New Age movement is the final cul-de-sac before enlightenment. However, even after one has let go of all external authorities, there remains an even more powerful beast to overcome… the tyranny of the ego. And, just to be clear, I am not equating the ego to one’s “soul” or “personal energy signature,” as Bronte tries to. I am referring only to that artificial and temporary construct which arises primarily from environmental conditioning. It cannot therefore be “real” in any sense of the word, yet your true self (which is ultimately love) identifies with this “product” of the system and in doing so becomes little more than a mechanism; a tool of the very system which created it. It should be self-evident, therefore, that you cannot have true free will or accept personal responsibility until this mistaken identity has been relinquished. Even those “good people” in this world – who seem to embody love and spend their lives in the service of others – are often on little more than an ego trip. They are “efforting” at love for a sense of identity and, whilst apparently going unrewarded for their labour, their ego is actually being nourished through the “love” and admiration of others. But, of course, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Authentic love arises only when this “egoic blockage” is released, because only then is it possible to understand Oneness as anything other than a concept; only then does one know at the deepest level that to harm others is to harm oneself, and that to love and help others is to love and help oneself. In fact, it is only because the individualized “you” doesn’t literally see through the eyes of others, that harm to others becomes possible. Obviously though, “other” is no less “you” than you are (one building, many windows). If your hands were endowed with individual consciousness (in the absence of a true picture of their reality), they may well start to seek their own advantage (ego) and even fight among themselves. This is what has happened here on earth. The “true picture of reality,” which we fully understood thousands of years ago, is something we no longer see.

    Even in the absence of the NWO, earth will never know peace until we realise the very simple truth of Oneness. This then replaces ego (not individuality) and becomes the “breath” which flows through our unique vessels… just as every cell, limb and organ of the body contributes to the ultimate health and well-being of the “one” consciousness behind it. The ego of Mozart may be dead, but the consciousness behind that ego continues to enjoy his music today and forever more. That’s how it is all supposed to work. Imagine how grey our lives would be if we could only enjoy the music that we ourselves had produced, or the movies that we ourselves had made, or the books that we ourselves had written, or the art that we ourselves had created. It’s for this reason that I individualized myself in the first place. I don’t mean “I” in separation from “you,” I mean the I that I am in the absence of me. So instead of “efforting” in order to make money, love others, or inflate our own egos, we should instead be freely expressing our individuality and talents – in the absence of a system derived ego – for the benefit of “all.”

    What need do you have of this ego identity when your consciousness moves on to new worlds and lifetimes, as it surely will? What need do you have of it NOW? Is your enjoyment of life diminished by its absence, or enhanced? Obviously, any identity which arises from form is a mistaken identity, vulnerable to manipulation and a source of fear and suffering. The truth has to be that you are no more a human than you are the avatar in your favourite fantasy roleplaying game. Belief that you are means that you have something to protect, and therefore something to fear. The system will then use this fear against you, for example by manufacturing an “alien” threat to your precious identity as an earthling, just as it uses the same scam against your false national or religious identity.

    More generally, of course, identification with the ego and its subjective value system creates something that we feel we must protect at all costs, and this becomes the root of fear. Fear, in turn, persuades us to give our true power away to people and concepts that we believe can protect our mistaken identity from harm, when in truth we should be surrendering that identity and reclaiming our unique and personal authority. Monarchies and governments could never have arisen without the ego, and the ego could never have arisen in the sustained light of true knowledge, which is nothing other than the remembrance of our true selves as infinite consciousness and ultimate Oneness. It’s the difference between a fluid and a solid. As a fluid (no ego) you can respond to every unique situation in a unique and original way. As a solid (rigid egoic product of the system), you don’t respond at all, you react. And because that reaction is entirely conditioned by your environment, you are essentially a cog in their machine; a mechanical person with a false sense of self and the illusion of free will and personal responsibility. In trying to protect this fantasy you are actually ensuring that the door to your prison remains well and truly locked. As Agent Smith rightly observed: “Billions of people, just living out their lives… oblivious.”

    Bronte attempts to find something sinister in the fact that Tolle’s awakening occurred at a time when he was close to suicide. Common sense should tell us, however, that the suffering ego, unable to live with itself any longer, does not seek its own continuation. For some this results in physical suicide, for others it leads to enlightenment. The part of Tolle that died, however, was not his “personal energy signature,” but rather the “product” that the system had persuaded him to identify with. In a flash he became like Neo, seeing things “as they are” for the first time and simply saying “no” to the onslaught of bullets trying to destroy his true self. His enjoyment of life and ability to love were heightened as a result, for he was no longer seeking himself in the world of form, or allowing the system to impose an identity upon him. At this point fear itself dissolves, as there is no longer anything to protect, and the potential for external manipulation goes with it. Tolle’s uniqueness and talents as a human being have since blossomed forth in freedom and contributed to the One consciousness that we all are. There exists the same potential for liberation in all of us, yet most will only ever peek out through the bars of their egoic prison, believing themselves to be on the outside, looking in.

  74. Brian said,

    June 6, 2008 at 9:07 pm

    Well, to quote Michael Corleone,’Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in! Ant, you still think that awakening means that you’re just gonna now ‘meld’ into the ‘oneness’ of consciousness. What you’re describing ain’t awakening my friend. Your logic is convoluted. For instance, sure the music of Mozart is to be enjoyed forever,. but why is the person named Mozart dead at all? Why refer to anything with whatever word you use (in this example-ego) by characterizing it as ‘dead’? What we need to protect ‘at all costs’,so to speak, insofar as it is within our power to do so is LIFE! Life as you are experiencing it NOW. Not some rationalization of an expected demise which therefore is ACCEPTING of that demise. Please try to understand this crucial point. I would love to expound on this more but the unfortunate distraction of chasing the almighty dollar(actually not so almighty anymore-another topic for another day) is pulling me away.

  75. brontebaxter said,

    June 6, 2008 at 11:57 pm

    Ant, if you had your way, the whole world would be nothing but liquid. You are interpreting subjectively what was going on inside Neo, which is very different from how I would interpret it (and I also love that movie).

    You tell us that if the hands had an ego identity of their own, they could not be trusted not to harm the body: such an attitude you have toward individuality! Yet you try and get out of responsibility for your insult to individuality by saying (my paraphrase): “No, I’m not talking about the individual soul, as Bronte is, I just mean the individual ego, which is a nasty, ignorant thing.”

    Yet clearly we are talking about the same thing only regarding it differently. You don’t believe that individual soul is even a reality apart from the nasty little ego. Do you? I challenge you to tell me you believe in the reality of a personal soul that’s anything more than the bundle of attitudes and impressions you call ego. Tolle doesn’t believe there’s more than that bundle either, and you are an apologist for him.

    Your statement “The ego of Mozart may be dead, but the consciousness behind that ego continues to enjoy his music today and forever more” demonstrates that to you there is nothing permanent about individual consciousness – no soul, no unique and eternal personal energy signature. Mozart to you was nothing but a complex of attitudes and impressions masquerading on Universal Oneness. For you, nothing about the individual Mozart could possibly continue on (unless, of course, his bundle of attitudes and impressions caused him to reincarnate more times until he could achieve the great enlightenment by dissolving himself and just being “Oneness” again).

    It’s more than chilling, your philosophy. You believe in no free agent, no singular entity that chooses and creates and decides, within the human being. To you we are all just a swirling mass of false impressions, with no authorship on the part of individual consciousness. For you, authorship belongs to The One, to the hive consciousness, that you, Ant, clearly surrender to.

    You suggest that fear is the reason individual consciousness resists assimilation. Fear is more likely one of the reasons it might seek assimilation. Surrendering the ego eliminates personal responsibility and the challenging choices and growth that living on purpose requires.

    I have a friend who follows Tolle like a dog. She plays his tapes before falling asleep and in every way tries to structure her life and attitudes around his teachings. When she finds herself upset and plagued by negative self-talk, which happens more and more frequently now, instead of ordaining that the negative chatter cease and taking back control of what’s happening, she “sits with the feelings,” like a dirty baby sitting in its diaper full of poop. She can’t understand why she only feels worse and worse.

    Her former occasional negative moods, in the 3 or 4 years she’s practiced Tolle’s methods, have become severe, verging-on-suicidal depressions that hit her out of the blue and last for days. Of course, she continues to “sit with the feelings” and believes she is “dissolving” her ego by so doing.

    I practiced Tolle’s teachings myself for over a year and was once a great advocate of the guy. I know from my own experience that “sitting with the feelings” only makes them stew. Tolle, whose teachings are highly seductive because they contain a grain of truth, has snagged some highly intelligent people who were on the verge of full awakening. Much of what you write here, Ant, is beautiful. But it’s poisoned with subtle philosophy that is spiritual suicide.

    Bronte

  76. David said,

    June 7, 2008 at 3:23 am

    I believe that humans can live very much longer than we do at this time, but I for one would not want to live here as David eternally. For me that would be hell. I am glad there is a portal out of this world. Of course I don’t want to leave just yet, but I do believe that when the time comes I will be happy to go. What will matter to me then will not be the loss of this body, but whether I have made a positive contribution to the light and to life in this world.

    Biology is living, but biology is not Life. Life does not die. We are Life, so we cannot die. If you make bodily death the enemy, then by extension you will also make biological life the enemy, since bodily death is integral to the processes of biological life on earth. The enemy is not death on earth – the enemy is the way humans are forced to live on earth.

    Reacting against death is another red herring; another distraction from the real problems of life on earth for humans. I think we should work with the materials provided, and try to help make life on earth safe for decent folk.

    I vision a time when it will be safe for souls to come here. When children will be born with full inheritance and freedom. A world where little children will not go hungry, and will not be told, as I was, that they will have to work and struggle and sacrifice to amount to anything. What a waste of life; this insane rat-race work ethic we have been indoctrinated with by the by the psychotic fools that rule the world.

    The dark lords are alive and well and living in their state-guarded compounds. Sometimes you can sense their menacing presence speeding by in smoked-glass limousines, as their military outriders push us ordinary folk aside to let them pass unhindered. The talking heads (of state) we see on TV are stooges. The real power lurks in the shadows behind the thrones of the world.

    David

  77. Brian said,

    June 7, 2008 at 8:35 am

    David, You remind me of myself when I was younger. A beautiful soul (if I do say so myself) with a sense of sadness. On the one hand you say, ‘Life does not die.We are life, so we cannot die.’ But on the other hand you say,’I’m glad there is a portal out of this world’. By that I’m assuming you mean the death of your physical body. But you can’t have it both ways. If you expect this physical death to occur, then what you’re saying is that life DOES die. Right here, right now why do you choose to assume that this physical death is inevitable? What if your being here now means you have yet another opportunity to understand that no such experience need occur at all? Why would you not at least choose to believe in that possibility? You couldn’t make a more positive contribution to the ‘light and life in this world’ than that. You say ‘ the enemy is not death on Earth-the enemy is the way humans are forced to live on Earth’. Humans allow themselves to be forced to live a certain way on Earth and this ‘permission’ is granted because we’ve given up our power in a manner that directly links to our acceptance of our physical demise as being inevitable. This is why we keep spinning our wheels on a seemingly endless life-death cycle that has brought us to the brink of this new world odor crap. Bodily death my friend is most certainly the enemy. How can it not be ‘ the real problem of life on Earth for humans’. If death ain’t a problem for life, then I don’t know what is! Don’t you see? It is THE problem. This doesn’t mean that if I walk out of my door and get run over by a BST(big scary truck) that I’m gonna be bitter about it.(a little pissed off maybe but not bitter) But it also doesn’t mean that I’m going to accept that this ‘mortal’ condition has to exist at all, either. I choose to believe that this is possible. I’ll bet you dollars to doughnuts that when we realize this capability you would most definitely want to live here eternally as David. What have you got to lose?

  78. Brian said,

    June 7, 2008 at 8:57 am

    Bronte, I gotta tell ya, this has been a most exhilarating discussion. I think you’ve created a monster. It’s taken on a life of its own and just keeps going and going and going. I’m guessing that it will spawn some spinoffs in the form of new articles from you. I look forward to reading them and we can continue to ‘rub the sleep from our eyes’ as we fully awaken to our truth.

  79. C. said,

    June 7, 2008 at 9:36 am

    Let me get right into it…. ( cap letters are not to scream, only highlights…)

    B: “I don’t think we can reliably count dimensions until we’re conscious enough to directly perceive them all.”
    True. But we get glimpses that are then difficult to interpret/translate. This is where things tend to get dicey and lost in semantics.
    Not to mention that the language is very limited when attempting to convey information pertaining to another realm.
    It is said that the devil is in the details and this is very treacherous terrain, but with discernment, not impossible to navigate.

    I mentioned in a previous post one of the ways that one can perceive dimensions. Still, that is just from one perspective, focusing on one level. To start to understand dimension I found that metaphysical concepts were the less polluted, distorted. Life is all about energy, how it moves, blends, ebb and flows.
    The concept of life being a fractal hologram is very fitting for me.
    I was lost in this whole maze of mystical and spiritual concepts until I came across metaphysics…there I saw the common denominator of all three angles at looking at things and gained some perspective. It could be off. But for the moment it feels right for me and until the next wave of growth, I will consolidate with that.

    B: “We don’t need constant change to exist, although change is certainly a feature of life. Life would be boring if there weren’t change. But I disagree that “change needs to be constant.”
    I agree. But this is about misinterpretation….there’s a difference between “constant” and “continuous”. Greedy people would like profit margins to continuously grow…see what that does? It automatically creates a crisis at one point because NOTHING in this realm is continuous. A solid base was not build at the “intermediary” stages so that, if a fall occurred, it wouldn’t be a free fall right back down to the last consolidation period or further..depending how sound that “platform” was created.
    It’s about cycles of growth and rest. Expansion and consolidation.
    That IS constant and will not change, at least in this physical universe.
    We can theorize that it is so in other realms, other dimensions, but then none of us could in all honesty prove one way or another.

    B:”I disagree that death is identical with change and transformation. Death is one kind of change.To say change is synonymous with death is like saying gardens are synonymous with turnips.”
    No, it would be synonymous, if we keep the garden metaphor, to a potted tomato plant.
    Death is ONE KIND of Change. Transformation another. If that is not what I conveyed previously, I apologize, it is what I meant.

    Have you read anything by Raymond Moody. His research about “life after death”, with people that actually passed but came back and retained memories of the experience? If your estimation of Death is right, wouldn’t they be afraid to die again?
    Why do all of them almost without exception come back totally at peace with death and a good understanding of it coupled with a renewed vigor for Life?
    I could concede that perhaps, their experience was “programmed” to be so, or that Moody is an “agent” But I don’t think the dark ones are that thorough.
    Have anyone ever assisted a dying person? One that dies a “natural” death? I have, and the energy in the room was nothing unpleasant. Rather it was very peaceful, full of love and respect. I must say it was a wonderful moment in it’s own way, very emotional, very bitter-sweet. Ancient Native Americans saw this too.
    ( I can’t talk for every single tribe, but the ones I know of, did.)

    B:”A fully empowered person, acting from a total connection with their higher consciousness, the Source, would not have to kill parasites, microbes or bacteria to stay healthy. Their bodies, running on the Infinite, would be impervious to such attacks, so there’d be no need to kill microscopic life forms to stay alive.”

    Absolutely right! This is just a conflict of contexts….
    Looking at it from a standpoint of everything being energy…microbes are the physical manifestation of a certain quality of energy that, within the whole, fulfills a certain defined function. Any energy that I encounter that I am not in alignment with, that I repel with my vibration, will automatically fight back. I am disconnected and this energy’s purpose depends on being integrated. Connected with. Yes, a totally connected person would never encounter resistance because all energies would be allowed to flow. Loved and connected with UNCONDITIONALLY. Noe would be held back, becoming frustrated, pent up, rebellious, aggressive…etc.
    All would just be accepted.
    But as we can see, we are far from there.

    The whole is ALWAYS greater than the sum of its part.
    The kidneys could never be more important than the whole body, nor work autonomously, separated from the whole. It seems separated, it is different, in form, function and purpose and is absolutely necessary. But CANNOT exist outside the context of it’s whole- the body.
    Life is “organic”…derived from the word “organ”. Each part, manifestation, level, dimensions of life is an organ that HAS to work with the other parts, in harmony, in order to keep the whole going. NOT one part can be eliminated without the whole suffering. It’s all interdependent. It’s all ONE.
    If I apply what you say Bronte in this context….you are absolutely right on this topic. Not one single part can be left behind, eliminated.

    But this is where “dicyness” starts creeping in. Humans are an hybrid if you will, we are part animal, part god. Consciousness aware of itself.
    The animal part cannot help but respond and react to the laws applicable to the animal dimension -the physical.
    Animals have no consciousness other than as relates to their immediate, observable environment. ( we could go into details here and really branch out but let’s not invite the devil ;) and try’n and keep it simple for a moment…).
    But I will say that animal consciousness, especially the ones living in groups is, in my opinion moving to 3D as we are moving in 4D.
    The point is they are not conscious of, let’s say a god, they have no beliefs, morals, anguish about meaning…etc.
    Only knowledge and experience as relate to their immediate life. Let’s call it instinct. Or GPS, see further below.

    The god part of the Human Being (in seed form) is the one that looks for morals, meaning, interpretations and all that package. That is the immortal part of the Human Being…notice that it isn’t called “human animal”, although some would like us to believe that. We are a blend of two dimensions of experience.
    We already know that dimensions overlap.

    I believe that if one god-seed fully develops it can and does become a god in it’s own right. If it doesn’t, it is returned to the source to try again. No harm, no foul.
    Look at the source as you would look at a fire…one can take as many little flames and never diminish the source…one can start another fire as big as the original one given the right conditions. It’s no coincidence that in tarot, astrology and such, Fire is always equated with Spirit. Catch my drift?
    Again I could be wrong, but to me at this point of my evolution, this is what makes perfect sense and keep me from leaking out loosh.

    B: It’s hard to say how we’ll work things out, because until we’re all in that consciousness together, we don’t know all the harmonious possibilities that await us.
    Exactly. This is where what DAS wrote ( post#55) totally applies and is worth repeating…
    “Putting words together will not take you far. Go within and discover what you are not. Nothing else matters.”

    B:They desperately want us to see death as acceptable, because then we will do nothing to stop it, to correct this fundamental crack in the universe which allows them to maintain their perverted lordship. They NEED you to think that your ego/small self is useless and a product of ignorance, no more a part of the real you than your car.

    First, all this “they” stuff is quite alright to communicate and keep from getting bogged down in semantics, but if you hold “them” as having any more power than you attribute to “them”, if you think “they” actually have power over you, and independently than the one you give them…
    you are still buying into the whole game of gods! “They” have no more power over me, my thoughts and emotions than I give “them”.
    If you want to honor your own divinity, you have to stop giving them the power. Give “them” up. Until that’s done, we’re working from the outside-in.

    Second…I meant to write “…your car and it’s GPS system”. The small ego, as I see it, is like the GPS, very useful to navigate your way around here but once in another dimension or reality, it is useless as its function is only to relate to the immediate, physical reality. In a higher reality, it is only one part of a harmonious organic system, the part that worked in a physical dimension, at at given point point on the “space-time continuum”, so to speak.
    I don’t want to keep this physical form for eternity! I want to be able to change it at will, depending on what I wish to experience at any given time.
    The distinct energy that I am, will gather the material energies ( matter) that I need to experience a given lifetime, then that stays in this dimension to be reborn as something else and I move on to the next desired experience. Both matter and spirit served the purpose of their union.

    There is a sense that many still hang to the idea that physicality is all there is.
    It’s only the tip of the iceberg….albeit in reverse, as if it was standing on it point.

    As for the grieving you mentioned, despite my view on death, I still grieve. I just don’t wallow in it because I don’t fight it. I’ve experience many death in the last little while, and some were really though to take…how long should I grieve? How long should I waste energy in refusing to accept what is? All grieving does is further cut me off from spiritual and emotional communion and communication with my beloveds. It cuts my flow, my connection. And according to some theories, does nothing but anchor their souls/spirit here so the can’t move on ( and probably are great prey for you-know-who!)
    It’s like being in what the catholic church termed ” limbo”.
    I believe that fighting Death, keeps you there, in limbo. Between Heaven and Hell…neither here nor there.
    The ones I lost are still with me, in my heart and mind everyday, perhaps even more so than when they were alive, at least more intimately so.
    I still love them, still communicate…I have lost nothing.

    Also, the way I see it from a “seed” point of view, if you will, if we would never loose someone, wouldn’t that lead many to take it for granted and thus value it less than one would in the knowledge they will eventually “go”…certainly not in the higher dimension since we don’t experience that there, but here.
    And wouldn’t that experience of apparent separation be the motivation we need to start stretching our consciousness to understand why? where?what?
    I have noticed that those who hurt the most from losing someone are those who believe that they did not “do right” by the departed, or hold some sort of regrets, and will never have the chance to correct their mistakes. Hmmmm..coincidence?
    They try’n hold back the flow. They buy into the physical illusion of being separated, disconnected.
    Again, it’s a problem that is easily solved, starting by being fully, consciously with the people you are with now, before it’s too late.
    Living in gratitude instead of fear is another step…the vibration of gratitude encourages and facilitates being open to the flow.
    When I lose someone I’m sad, but instead of rebelling against the apparent injustice of Death, I focus on being grateful for the blessing to have been part of this spirit’s life and what we have shared. I do the same with my food ( when I eat…)

    B:You want us to do that, C.? Maybe you’d like us to practice blood sacrifice and rip the beating hearts out of our victims, too, the way those brilliant primitives who celebrated death did.
    LOL! I expected that you would automatically associate my comment with blood rituals! It’s your thoughts!
    I meant to point to Celtic, druidic, pagan tradition, native Americans or the ones that observed the cycles of Life as observed in Nature,and perhaps to a certain extent ancient Egyptian cultures.
    Granted these were not fully mature either, but if one looks at the basic, without the whole song and dance of rituals and idols and tralala, before the “aliens” came in and started polluting…it’s a good point to start re-building from.
    They deified “pure” energies and concepts…remove those mask and costumes and put what’s left next to metaphysics.
    One start to see easily see all the parallels, and speeds up the process of separating truth from lie.

    B:There is a prophecy: “The wolf shall eat straw like the ox, and the lion shall lie down with the lamb.”
    It’s all it is-a prophecy. Nothing easier to make up and frankly, given the purpose of this blog, I am surprised prophecies would be considered valid. It means NOTHING. It could come from those who want you to resist death based on such a concept that wolf will eat straw…well they already do..and coyotes eat sunflowers seeds – I saw it in their stools! :)
    I’m not saying that this prophecy is more right or wrong than the others prophecies, I’m saying that it doesn’t mean much more. I could take and elaborate this whole prophecy and turn it on it’s head to show you that it is what “they” want you to believe. A great feat if they (lion) could lie with the sheep…notice the word “sheep”…very telling to me.

    Ant: “The system will then use this fear against you, for example by manufacturing an “alien” threat to your precious identity as an earthling, just as it uses the same scam against your false national or religious identity. ”
    I fully agree with you. Who’s to say that the whole concept is not a scapegoat?
    Kinda reminds me of Bart Simpson doing a mess of things and even thought caught red handed says “I didn’t do it!” No. Aliens did. Gimme a break!
    Isn’t that just another transference…it’s not gods anymore, it’s aliens.
    Same, same. Whether aliens are doing it or not, whether they do exist or not, as far as I’m concerned, is TOTALLY irrelevant to what I’m up to, and serves as nothing but a distraction to what’s going on within.
    It’s a diversion from creating the “good” since we are too focused in fighting and destroying the bad.
    Let the bad fight the bad, for they will eventually turn on each other, I am convinced. It’s in their nature- “they” will eventually just cancel each other out and meanwhile we will have created paradise and be sipping god nectar.

    As for the Matrix movie….yes, it has some truth that does parallel our experience but it is still just a movie that was done to earn money.
    Not educate, not enlighten. Not liberate or empower. The rush of empowerment felt after the movie, is nothing but adrenaline response to viewing violence.
    We feel pumped. (perfect brainwash recipe)
    There are as many potential pitfalls, and misleading “truth” in this movie than any other. This movie is just another level, or variable, of what was done to the “hippy generation”. And those that fell for it once, unfortunately, fall for it twice it seems to me….they’re all over the net on every “spiritual” site and it is being touted almost as the new Bible. Sounds like a rallying call to unite and “fight the machine”.
    References to that movie are made as if it was the word of god. Wake up!
    They took a bit of truth that was becoming mainstream and quickly provided what was need to guide us where they wanted us. In fighting imaginary adversaries, heartless machines diverting our energy from creating. But we divert our energy IN fighting them!!
    Personally, I must say that I’m sick of hearing references to that movie (or any other commercial movie that earned millions) and got people so brainwashed that they are ready to start a religion based on Neo, “The chosen one”.
    How is that different from the Jesus “the son of god” story? ,
    Or any other god story..it’s only the modern version. They just provided a new Maharishi.
    They gave exactly what was demanded then, as now. Something to fight and somone to lead the fight.

    How about paying attention to non-commercial movies that were actually made to enlighten, empower and make you think, not to make profit?
    Like the circle of spiritual movies….. http://www.spiritualcinemacircle.com/
    But there is not high velocity action, shinny gadgets, sex scenes and violence in those movies, so …..it might not appeal to those who are still in the “fight or flight” mode.

    Okay, this is me signing out.
    Peace on!

  80. Jung said,

    June 7, 2008 at 9:49 am

    Bronte, you are the first person to have verbalized something that’s bothered me for a long time. I’ve been studying NWO/fourth-dimension theories ever since I was a little kid, and for the past several years have become a deeply spiritual person. I am now 24.

    As I’ve learned more about spiritual gurus/practices, my biggest fear has been the idea that this whole spiritual game is “rigged.” That what we commonly call “enlightenment” is, in fact, not what we think it is.

    Now I see that this fear has not been complete lunacy! After all, if the manipulators were able to use the Western religions to control us, how can we know that the Eastern religions aren’t being used as weapons as well?

    Just wanted to say thanks for now. Hopefully I can contribute to this discussion when my head stops spinning!

  81. astralkid said,

    June 7, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    For david’s last post ; I’m all with you as in how you explain the death issue and the freedom we ought to live in.
    For brian ; what david means with life ever ongoing and still being glad there is a portal out of here ,is that life after you leave the body is an ongoing affair and you still have to deal with your very own self, it doesn’t matter where you are, the body just transforms to the stuff earth is made from, it is the inner you that makes it alive anyway.
    About eckhardt tolle to my opinion ; some months back i downloaded the audio book a new earth and tried to listen to it , first off he is hard to understand with this heavilly german accent and second he sounds like a hypnotist , you fall asleep to at least a alpha wave state, so my alarm bell went off, third he is trying to sound all righteouss and logical even from a spiritual point of view and so trying to convince you to believe what he is saying , according to him we should be “enlightened” (read enslave) if we follow his teachings………………..
    Nothing more to ellaborate , ’cause those in the known know what i mean here , still everyone should make up his/her own mind.

    Bronte , great discussion going on here :-)

  82. Brian said,

    June 7, 2008 at 11:13 pm

    Asral Kid, I was born at night but it wasn’t last night, my young friend( sorry, maybe I’m assuming ‘young friend’ because I’m old and have figured out a few things) You are in the trap that so many of us have fallen into. When you speak of ‘ life after you have left the body, and that life is an ongoing affair and there being a portal out of here and that the body just transforms to the stuff of Earth you must ask yourself some fundamental questions. Questions that we have been so unable to ASK let alone answer. First off let us agree that life is an ongoing affair. Make that a given premise. But where exactly do you suppose you’re going when ‘you’ leave the body through that portal? If it is something that just happens implying that it was in an involuntary fashion then you have to conclude that some’thing’ or some’one’ else is prompting the departure. Sure, you’ll always have to deal with your self, but it is not your ‘very own self’ if the dealing is not done on YOUR terms.We need to get used to the idea of learning of ways to direct the ‘movement’ of our being. To BE the transformers to whatever state that being is being IN. Being in charge of your life means that YOU are the decider. It’s not you’re decision when you’re not the one making ‘it’ happen. Tolle and others of his ilk are the hypnotists who have been hypnotized themselves to dispensing the virtually complete antithesis of what I’ve just written. I’ll say it again just for emphasis: Believe in and learn to know your power

  83. malone ducklo said,

    June 8, 2008 at 12:32 am

    the fact that The One has historically been better understood and manipulated by non-human interests does not mean it must continue this way. have you investigated Chaos Magic as a means to exercise some humanly “good” will in the world? every time a dollar bill passes through your hands, take out your pen and black out the eye over the pyramid.

  84. astralkid said,

    June 8, 2008 at 12:56 am

    Hi brian , yes I might be young but have my etreme experiences too, refering to your last sentence of your post I guess we are talking about the same thing or at least refering to the same level of thought.
    What i have to add is that the human species in this dimension is in a state of amnesia ,even though a handfull is waking up or are on the verge of it, a lot of things still happen on the unconscious level of our being ,for some things we may be glad it is , what if you have to think and decide to keep breathing and let your heart pump the blood and nutrients through your body, just a lame example but thats how much of the iceberg is still under the surface.
    Sure I’m aware that we have a tremendous power, but even though it is there right under our noses , we still have to wake up to it.
    All the people coming here contributing with comments are making a huge leap already compared to say just 50 years ago, its a step to awakening for everyone who comes here and questioning the status quo including myself, step by step.
    Glad you recognize tolle’s teachings for what it is and you make up your own mind.

  85. David said,

    June 8, 2008 at 2:39 am

    That my concern for the way so many humans are obliged to live in this world is seen as quaintly naïve and spiritually immature, is….?

    My main objection to gods, saviours, spooks, gurus and the religions, is that they feed on people’s egoic vulnerabilities; and a central egoic vulnerability in this world is the fear of what is called ‘death’. They offer fantasies of gods and saviours and eternal life, in return for control of your life on earth.

    If the testimony of Bob Monroe, and so many others who have had near death experiences (NDE), is true, then humans do not ‘die’ when the human body dies; and death is not at all to be feared. What is to be feared is living in ignorance of the truth of our real nature, and living in fear of death. Fear opens us up to manipulation by the dark lords of this and other realms.

    Brian, your presumption that you know what I really want is incorrect; and in my opinion equating the death of the physical body with a real death of the person is also incorrect. I think the testimony of NDEs clearly demonstrates that the person does not die when the body dies. I will repeat what I said before – biological processes are living, but biological processes are not Life.

    Anyway, this talk of living eternally in these bodies in this world, is in my opinion no more relevant to the real challenges facing the human race, than discussing which god’s heaven is the real one. I am sorry, but I cannot see it as other than a reactive gesture, grounded in egoic vulnerability and fear of death. The real challenge is how we live while we are here.

    Of course if we lived in the right way human life could be greatly extended. But we do not live in such a way at this time, and the civilisation that will make such a life possible will not emerge for some time yet; and I am not suggesting some future hi-tech extension of the current medical or Frankenstein approach to longevity – that road leads straight into a cyborg hell. I am thinking of a completely different kind of human civilisation that will view our present civilisation as barbaric and insane – which I firmly believe it is.

    That future civilisation will be the creation of awakened humans. It is nascent in every human who awakens today, or in any time; but it requires a critical mass in order to emerge into physical reality. The dark lords know that the best way to prevent that evolutionary leap from occurring is to promote fear and stress and egoic vulnerability; and they are doing a great job of it.

  86. June 8, 2008 at 3:49 am

    David, you and Brian are both right in the essential points you are making. You (and C.) are right in emphasizing that spirit is eternal, that it is the real “me,” and that to stress too much over physical death is a mistake and a waste of “loosh.” I liked what you said, C., about focusing on the spirit of a loved one who has passed over, and staying connected with that, rather than focusing on the loss. That’s what I try to do, and it is very healing. As long as we have to die, and those we love have to, this is the intelligent way to weather the situation. Much better than falling into depression, despair, or very intense suffering over it.

    I don’t think either Brian or I take issue with all that. In fact, you have both helped elucidate it beautifully. But there is another element here that we have been trying to point out, and that is the fact that death is something that happens to us, not something we can choose or reject. Until we get control of our own life and death, we suffer from a kind of victimization. Life is not just about visiting the material plane, learning lessons here, and then leaving. I think it is about mastering the physical plane, making it totally malleable by spirit.

    I’m going to develop this idea by writing an article about it soon, partly thanks to all the thought stimulation you guys have given me. Meanwhile, I’m just a little concerned that this discussion is starting to fall into a battle over who is right. I think we all have elements of “right” here.

    Bronte

  87. Brian said,

    June 8, 2008 at 10:39 am

    David, I never equated the ‘death of the physical body with the real death of the person’, and ‘for the record’, you took me out of context when I said you would want to live here eternally as David. Your reading it this way drew you to the conclusion that in essence everything I’ve said amounts to a fear of death. Nothing could be further from the truth. If that truck hit me, and I’m dead,(physically of course) as I said in my post responding to you, I’d be a little pissed off because I reject the condition of ‘mortality’ that exists in this venue. That ain’t fear. In fact, this ties in directly with your assessment that ‘biological processes are living, but biological processes are not life’. Bingo. This seems to be a perfect segue to Bronte’s wheels turning with ideas about ‘mastering the physical plane, making it totally malleable by spirit’. It just gets curiouser and curiouser.

  88. Rob said,

    June 12, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    I’ve just joined “the Great Debate” and apologies in advance if I don’t seem to reply. I have internet connection problems here in Cambodia.

    Amongst my interests is NDE’s – Near Death Experiences – which seem to reflect the experience of ‘enlightenment.’ One aspect of these experiences that most researchers agree on is that the one who has them comes back transformed: less concerned with their own interests, less stuck in their previous prejudices, more compassionate, more creative, etc. And this seems to “stick” long after their NDE.

    There are also parallels between LSD (and other hallucinogens or entheogens)experiences and NDE’s, but they seem to be more transitory and less radically life-changing for whatever reasons.

    Over the years I’ve read a lot of first books and/or articles by people who have had experiences similar to Tolle’s. These first publications are often very inspiring. The second and subsequent books are less so and the “cults” that form around these authors get further and further from the original message. Sometimes this seems to have been deliberately done, whether for personal profit or to reach a larger audience or something more sinister and sometimes simply because there is such perfect simplicity in the original vision and this ultimately gets lost in subsequent elaborations.

    Bronte wrote: “Until we get control of our own life and death, we suffer from a kind of victimization. Life is not just about visiting the material plane, learning lessons here, and then leaving. I think it is about mastering the physical plane, making it totally malleable by spirit.” I balked at the first sentence because it seemed to imply that what I call ‘ego’ (that in me which interacts with the physical world – in the model I’m working with now, the ‘left brain’) has any say in what happens after death. But when I read the whole passage I realized that the ‘we’ she’s talking about is the spiritual ‘I’ (right brain, maybe – it’s just a model, just a theory I like to play with), which is the one tuned into the immutable, spiritual ‘I’.

  89. rob said,

    June 13, 2008 at 11:12 am

    A little more on this “immutable, spiritual ‘I’.” Speaking for myself and a lot of us, I think, even finding a spiritual ‘I’ in myself was a revelation. I sought it outside myself by reading books and practicing techniques taught by others. When I learned that those others were not infallible, I left them, but continued to search for someone else who could ‘enlighten’ me. I attended seminars and listened respectfully to what the presenter had to say. When I (again respectfully) posed a question that threatened the presenters point of view (which s/he of course usually had assimilated from someone before him/her), the presenter (or guru if you like. guru literally translates as ‘teacher’). he or she would ‘compassionately’ point out that I was mistaken and to look within myself for the source of the error, be it faulty logic, suppressed fear, repressed desire or my ‘ego’ which must surrender itself to their (or their guru’s) greater wisdom. This pattern began long before I became a ‘seeker.’ It is how I was taught to learn: from kindergarten teachers to college professors, to Sunday school, to yoga classes, to EST, encounter groups and even a course in astral projection I took.

    I think I’ll focus on that one because it’s the closest thing to conscious contact with other-dimensional entities I’ve had. This was an online course. I practiced the preliminary exercises and they worked. I found myself out of my body one night and took a walk around my house. Then I flew to America and looked around a shopping mall. Now, I can’t guarantee that I was actually out of my body, but it felt like it. Let’s just assume I was for the purposes of this exercise.

    Impressed, I continued with the course. Now I was going to direct my efforts to making contact with an ascended master. I was somberly warned that many false masters would appear before me and I must look for and listen to only one, Saint Germaine. At that point the alarm bells went off, I said, ‘screw this’ and quit the course.

    A couple of years later I bought a book called “Truth vs Falsehood – How to tell the Difference.” The author claimed that by using a simple kinesiological technique, one could ascertain the truth about anything. He said that the human mind, being lost in the false ‘I’ of the ego, could never determine the truth. I’d had some stunning success using kinesiology, so I bought the book. It was so absolutely full of crap that for awhile I entertained the notion that the author had written all that drivel so that the reader could come to the stunning realization that truth lies within us and that we are free and full of light in ourselves if we allow ourselves to be. That was a BIG flash for me. I re-read the book. No, that wasn’t the ‘hidden message’ – the author is simply full of crap.

    Now there is no one “on a podium” I listen to without question. That includes myself. I find myself in a wonderful inner space where I can wander without fear or rancour, exploring everything as I did when I was a child – but I’m not a child anymore. Nor am I an adult. I believe I’ve found that ‘immutable I’ – I may be wrong about that as well, but that doesn’t matter either. What matters is that I ken (lovely Scottish word – sort of means ‘intuit’) the truth David Icke expressed when he wrote: “I am me! I am free!” That’s why I like to hang out here. Everybody’s exploring and sharing – nobody’s preaching. Thanks

  90. Linda said,

    June 14, 2008 at 1:43 am

    Bronte, love the discussion. It is making us all think and question our ‘beliefs’, which can only help bring greater clarity for everyone involved. So much of the problem is how we define the words we use. Unfortunately, most of those words have been deliberately corrupted to fit the agenda for continuing control over humanity. But sometimes by rejecting those words that have been corrupted, we also throw the seed of truth it carries. We end up thinking that it has no value and end up throwing the proverbial baby out with the bathwater.

    Looking at the caste system of India, we can clearly see that it was a set-up to get people to just accept their circumstances. The same way that the teachings were structured to take that power away from the lower castes and fully in the hands of the Brahmans. It goes back to that ‘divine right to rule’ bullshit.

    Humanity, as a species, was set up from the very beginning to be a slave caste. Whoever or whatever created human beings did not do so with the best interest of humans in mind. Humans have been in a mental prison/matrix and until they start to awaken and reject all that prison programming, will never attain true ‘freedom’.

    Reading the Vedas with an open mind, one can plainly see that a corruption is taking place as it progresses. Maybe the original was too close to the ‘truth’ and dangerous to those in control? So much of what we are left with, on any path, must have at its core, at least a grain of ‘truth’.

    Observing this world, and the universe for that matter and seeing all the violence it contains, it becomes impossible to continue to believe that Infinite Love – the real God had anything to do with its creation. Love cannot create what it is not!

    On the same token, astral beings, who are obviously addicted to misery and suffering also cannot create a higher feeling like Bliss. Bliss would naturally cause a disconnection because it would not feed them the loosh they need to survive. Without fear and suffering, the control is over!

    I agree, we all have an individual identity, a soul-ego personality that is our own unique signature, which also survives after the organic earth suit dies, But, that is not the same thing at all as the false ego we acquire starting at birth. That ego is a tool of the ‘gods’, which insures that we stay their slaves.

    That false projection, is the implanted sabateur, which does everything it can to take us away from our true self. It is the tool of the Matrix programming to keep us in this prison. It will sabbatage and deceive us at every turn. Everything we think, feel and perceive is through the lens of this false projection. That is what must be rejected to gain the freedom to be our own true self. It is not a surrender of the true self, but the enpowerment of it. That is taking on the ultimate responsibility for self, to be our own savior.
    Thanks,

    Linda

  91. Terri said,

    June 14, 2008 at 3:10 am

    I have found myself today, eagerly reading, looking, trying to recognize, one who has arrived with me to this powerful place of disillusionment, that I have found myself in the last few years. Not a popular stance, and as all of you here know, having become free of many of your own illusions. I am grateful to you for having verified for me, that it is indeed an essential step on this journey and not some coping mechanism for the disappointment I have felt moving though… gurus, teachers, metaphysics, gnosticm, philosophy, psycholgy, atheism, new ageism, kabblah, occultism, theosophy, chrisitianity, buddism, hinduism, a course in miracles, new thought, integral spirituality, cynicism….just to name a few. Never being one to leave a stone unturned.

    My nature speaks to me to teach, but to spread the news of the NWO, david icke style is a challenge (and he has carved out a wonderful niche), not only to steal the innocence, but to know it is to change everything. With awareness of the 911 lies, it was often too much and I have found in the past, to be difficult to keep my big mouth shut. I hope I can convey correctly and with awareness and assurance to you, that I know the world must wake up to the mass deception that is taking place, but it takes a strong will and an individual’s purest desire to know the truth that, from my experience, cannot be awakened in another. Therefore, most of the time it is a waste of time to spead the “word”, so to speak. So, my experience is that I affirm those who are also waking up or are awake that they are correct and affirm their truth and encourage them. I lay in wait for those I recognize who are on the verge of waking up and share what I have found and relish in the companionship for a while, I seek validation to walk forward, for the strength to go on is built on the belief that others walk ahead of me and, as I reach out to those behind because I must, I am looking for those who reach out to me who are ahead and wish to convey knowledge to those who are ready. Now, this has become more difficult for the message in the first realization is not so sweet, but only with digestion does the satisfaction become complete. Therefore, those that walk this path are fewer and fewer, so it becomes, naturally, a more solitary path. So, I thank you for an afternoon of wonderful stimulation, with shared awareness and companionship, I have realized several insights today and I appreciate you all taking the time to share your point of view and your earnest desire to contribute to truth. Peace to you.

  92. Rob said,

    June 14, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    Linda wrote: “[we] end up throwing the proverbial baby out with the bathwater.”

    Funny, I was going to use that expression myself today! I agree with you, Linda. For instance, I still find meditation to be a valuable exercise. Meditation has its origins in India. Traditional gurus are simply teachers who pass on their knowledge to their students. Those with integrity ask little or nothing in exchange. When I went to India the first time in 1971, I was overcome with disgust with what I saw in Rishikesh. I went for a long walk one day and came across a cave. Obviously a sadhu lived there. Being young and silly, I poked my head in the cave door and shouted hello. Out came my dream sadhu, his body covered with ashes, his matted hair would have touched the ground if he hadn’t held it in his hands. I tried to bow down to him and he said sternly in English, “don’t do that! You’re not a Hindu.” We sat down and had a lovely conversation. He had walked away from his British boarding school at the age of about 12. He tried very hard to convince me that, not coming from a Hindu culture, my understanding of what a guru was was necessarily limited. He also suggested that too much meditation could be harmful in the wrong environment. He told me a lot of things I wish I’d listened to at the time.

    Bronte, you were intrigued with a breathing technique mentioned by a poster. Where did breathing techniques originate? With yogis.

    As soon as you go from, say, Patanjali, to the watered-down version of the Maharishi, something will have been lost in the translation. In fact, something is lost in the translation from Sanskrit or Pali, even when it comes from the source! For instance, I read an article called “The Devastating Consequences of Dukha.” Dukha is the Pali word that has been translated since the time of Buddha as meaning “suffering.” So the first tenant of Buddhism, “all life is suffering” implants a thought in the believers mind – that life by definition sucks. But “dukha” according the writer, actually means “not one.” Buddha is simply saying that life is in duality and offers ways to restore “kha” or oneness to consciousness – this being its original state. [I love it because it goes so well with my rightbrain/leftbrain musings. United, they stand, divided they fall! But that’s another story]. Dukha’s just one example out of squillions of how things get distorted by time, translation and interpreation. I’ve probably just distorted the message of the article I’ve referred to by talking about it from memory instead of quoting it verbatim. Sorry, forgotten author! Thanks for your words of wisdom.

    Yes! As soon as something that works comes along, there will be those who will look for ways to profit from them – by “profit” I mean financially and/or energetically. Any pop star or stage actor will tell you about the amazing rush they get from the adulation of their adoring fans. I think it probably works in a similar way on the ‘interdimensional level’ though having never been there, I can only speculate. If so, all you need to do is to stop cheering! Or jeering, for that matter. There are those who get a rush out of being offended, too.

  93. kininigin said,

    June 14, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    Hello everyone, this is a great discussion. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with monoatomic gold? I obtained some a while ago but never took any after being told that it might be part of an illuminati plot to shut down our ‘junk’ DNA to keep seekers from accending in 2012. What does it really do? Are most humans in a larva state and the gold acts as the catalist for our transformation into the human equivalent of a buterfly?(AKA the golden path?) Kind of like how royal jelly transforms a bee into a queen bee that lives seven times longer. Or is it just a scam with a sinister pupose? Does anyone out there know anyone that has taken it? I’ve asked many people and nobody has ever even heard of it. Maybe it was used by the ancients long ago for all kinds of things but what about the people selling it now? What’s their agenda? Money? I mean, from what I understand it basically turns you into a superhero by elliminating all disease,aging, and increasing your current carrying capacity by some ten thousand percent allowing you to manifest your thoughts into reality instantaniously.Instead of experiencing time in a linear fashion you could bounce around to any point in time and stay as long as you want,shapeshift into anything you can imagine, and teleport at will.Telekinesis,pyrokinesis,precognition,retrocognition,regeneration, and telepathy would all be at your disposal as well as the abillity to be in two or more places at once experiencing seperate realities simultaiously.Side affects include glowing eyes,not sure what colour but it doesn’t sound that bad considering.One distributer told me that mostly two kinds of people usually seek this stuff out: people into yoga and people dying of a terminal disease. He said that some master yogis can produce this nectar from the roof of their mouth that can sustain them for long periods, and that after taking the gold, novice yogis were able to produce this nectar. He seemed curious about why I wanted the gold and I told him that I practiced yoga which was true.A few years later I was given some by a friend because I wouldn’t stop talking about it. But before I took any came the warning. If it sounds to good to be true, I thought, maybe it is.I found out that it is not appoved by th FDA but I didn’t really care about that.I was more concerned about it being toxic and harmful in the long or short run.David Icke talks about it in ‘The Biggest Secret’ as a possible explanation for how the draco/reptilians shapeshift.Monoatomic gold plus human blood and bingo, perfect disguise.Reminds me of that part in ‘Fear and Loathing’ where they take that adrenachrome the satanists gave Dr. gonzo.The reason I bring all this up here is because it sounds like monoatomic gold could empower us in a mutitude of ways thus freeing us from fear and control and allowing us to create our own realities.Makes sense now that gold has always been so sought after throughout time and why the populus would be kept in the dark about its other uses.Think larva. Could this be the real secret, the answer to what we are all looking for? What we all deserve?If it is then wow.Or is it another trap for those that pose a bigger threat to the NWO than most.I read that it actually does give you a hightened sense of awareness at first, but then it stops and your DNA is permanently damaged keeping you from being able to access mutidimensional aspects of yourself naturally. Is this just disinformation? I’m very confused about this and I don’t know what to do with the stuff. Is there any one out there that knows anything about it? Or knows someone that does? Any information would be great.

  94. June 15, 2008 at 8:57 am

    Hi Kininigan

    I attended some lectures several years back by David Hudson, a chemist who was working to produce monoatomic gold. You may be able to find some articles by him if you look up his name on the Internet. He was of the opinion that gold, if refined in just the right way, is “the elixir of immortality” that the ancient alchemists were looking for and that has been historically referred to as “the philosopher’s stone,” “the red lion,” and “the fountain of youth.” He also claimed that if not refined properly, powder of gold taken internally is toxic. And he claimed that the right version of the stuff, which he was attempting to create, developed psychic abilities and all sorts of good stuff. The book, “The Red Lion,” is a novel about a person who consumes the equivalent of a condensed version of monoatomic gold.

    I would be very cautious about taking the material now being sold on the market. Even if it’s produced properly, eliminating gold’s toxic properties for ingestion, the material is said to be potentially harmful in a number of ways to some people. It can cause psychosis in a person not entirely mentally stable. One source claims it locks in your personality and attitudes at whatever spiritual level you’re at when you begin taking the gold, preventing further progress. I suppose if you were totally conscious and took the gold, such side effects wouldn’t be there. But then, if you were totally conscious, the gold wouldn’t be needed.

    My feeling is that we have within us everything we need to be everything the gold could ever give us. I prefer to work on naturally harnessing the powers of consciousness rather than dabbling in some material that could be harmful and that we shouldn’t really need anyway.

    Hope that information helps. Try reading the novel. I think you’ll find it interesting.

    Bronte

  95. Connie said,

    August 26, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    In response to “C” on June 2 with regards to the effectiveness of demonstrations and protests in the current day. This upcoming independent film tells a most extraordinary story of protest at the highest level of expression. These are humans claiming their power and sovereignty in the most ethical way imaginable……by singing.
    Amazing!
    http://www.singingrevolution.com

  96. Sara Henrysson said,

    April 30, 2009 at 11:25 pm

    My Life, madam Bronte. This is fascinating reading! You manage to put your finger EXACTLY on what has been bothering me.

    “One of the great difficulties in identifying the lies around us is that the deceivers steal our own terms and use them for their lies.”

    This is SO true. Lets take them back! Question though, isn’t it just as important that we find our true nature, the real source of the fountain of our consciousness, as that we do not abandone our individual forms and/or consider them evil? Meditation can be incredibly valueable, can’t it? As well as yoga. I feel terrific when I have done yoga. You say we should find a balance between the two different things but isn’t it a better idea to remove the barrier altogether and merge the two?

    There is no final goal. The journey continues and creation is our birthright.

    Don’t you think?

    Sara

    Bronte’s Reply:
    Yes! I agree completely! All your points are well-said and well-taken. Thanks.

  97. Silas Anderson said,

    May 21, 2010 at 1:47 am

    Tolle have two very useful points.

    1. If you want to commit suicide, because your “pain body” have taken you over. Do only kill your Ego, and you will be able to live a nice life without the suffering that you wanted to escape from. Instead face it, and let it become your crucifiction.. in other words, surrender to what is, and take acting if you can. If you can’t, just accept that, and surrender to each moment.. However, if you have a nice life without suffering, just live with your Ego and keep adding on to it. But properly there will come a time in everyone’s life with intense suffering, because that is the nature of forms. Life will become death.. Relations will end with time.. and so on.. With Tolle you have an EXIT if it gets too much, and when time have healed you, you can maybe go back to your old life.

    2. That actions is not coming from fear, anger, nervousness.. But from within, in a peaceful way because you know that in reality you do not have to depend on the object or persons you think you need. However, it is still nice to have and therefore you try to get it. But do not kill yourself if you cant get it. As he says: “you do the best you can in the forms of objects” and then surrender to what you can’t do anything about.

    in other word, I think that what Tolle try to explain, are that we do not have to have fear death, because there is no death, and we should trust the universe or God.

    My criticism:
    that many people get so much drawn into this, that they loose motivation in the form of objects, and therefore loose nice experiences. And that you do somehow become arrogant to the world, because now it do not have the power to make you suffer. That will have the consequence, that you can make bad decisions and even criminal action, and still feel good about yourself. Maybe we need to suffer, in order to clean our spirits for wrongful actions taken in our past. In other words, maybe we need the karma system.

    But Tolle helped me out of an intense depression, and for that I’m very thankful. Tolle also teached me how to sleep within 3 min, because I can now stop thinking, and there by force myself into sleeping mode :) – A place with no thinking and therefore no suffering is a very addicting place

    All the best
    Silas

  98. Catharina said,

    July 10, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    Bronte,
    what do you make of the Soccer World Cup being scheduled so that the hours of maximum crowd excitement (final match) coincides with the full solar eclipse elsewhere in the southern hemisphere? The final 2 pairs of 11 players battling it out in a game invented by Freemasons, kicking around an object shaped like earth, in a tournament that started on the 11th and ends on the11th during a solar eclipse… in a structure shaped like a giant feeding bowl. It sounds like a loosh-fest designed to have a particular flavor, doesn’t it?

  99. Kushta said,

    October 6, 2010 at 12:06 am

    Bronte said: “Surely we were meant to be more than automatons, possessed zombies, walking around the earth while something else moves through us. Surely God’s plan was not for Its creatures to become mindless robots, with glassy grins and empty hearts, who regard suffering and happiness, death and life, as all the same in value. Surely there is something beyond what the gurus’ teach as the ultimate, Something that celebrates, supports and cherishes each being It ever created, that desires them to live forever and in harmony and joy, as Itself.”

    Surely, my dearest sister, we are God’s children, Divine to the core, meant to be be co-creators with God in the enterprise of Love, and to taste its nectarian sweetness – the endless joy it brings. We are one people, one soul, divided to further Love’s domain.

    – Kushta

  100. Jones said,

    February 3, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    Brahman sound like some sort of superhero to me. Wearing a bra on his head!

    • brontebaxter said,

      February 5, 2011 at 2:43 am

      I must say your comment gave me a hearty laugh. “Brahman” is actually pronounced “bra-mun.” It rhymes with the second word in “Noodles Ramen.” The way you read it, though, with “man” on the end, I see where it would sound like Batman or Spider Man or Superman. Which gives you “Bra Man,” yes?

      This is particularly humorous to me because one of the depictions of “the supreme deity” in Hinduism is a male god with female breasts, which is supposed to suggest that God is androgenous and the parent of both male and female. Quite an ugly image.

      Seems to me if you want to call the consciousness running the universe “Bra Man” and think of it as a lunatic wearing a bra on its head, that’s as apt an image as any for the insane consciousness this universe labors under. Thanks for making me laugh out loud today.

      Bronte

  101. Lucio said,

    July 16, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    Bronte, please surrender to Ant, you will loose nothing. Is the creator different from his creations? Can you not be yourself? can you give away some essential part of you to other being? If so, what is his agenda? What does he gain from that? May be he is feeding himself. Tolle and the gurus are just food. And you are preventing us from becoming that too. Excuse me, but I also have been possessed. So Cosmic Consciousness is just a trap. Well, you will be trapped. You can resist as long as you want but, believe me, you will. I could tell you: “resist nothing” but I know you will not hear as you are very stubborn. nice quality, defend your small self, it sure gives you plenty of satisfaction, It will give me a lot of satisfaction too when I, The Only One There Is, put my teeth on your soul. I can hear you fighting in my stomach, resisting to become one of my cells… which you were from the beginning.
    More seriously. According to you there are 3 levels of reality. God, some or one of His more advanced evil children who are the creators of the physical universe and play with us; and us humans. I may ask how come you came to this conclusion. How this knowledge was given to you. Does it come from a personal experience? Or should I say how did you discover our conspiracy? For me, for Ant, for many enlightened masters, there is just one who plays to be many. This has been experienced many times by many. Have you perhaps gone further?. You also seem to say that there should not be suffering, forms should not be destroyed, death should not occur. Life, in this physical universe, is and needs energy. the body needs to be feed to function. That, according to you, should not be. It is evil. Bad. You are labeling. May be Tolle can give you a lesson on that, but that, I suspect, will not do anything, will not change your mind. Can you fight that? Can you change the fact that life on earth could not exist if it does not devour itself? Why don`t you stop eating and see what happens? Beware, some people have become enlightened by fasting or at least have had a glimpse of the evil cosmic consciousness. It is so evil that when you become a part of it ( it is more exact to say that you realize you are it) your life is suddenly free of problems, you experience permanent bliss, love, compassion for all sentient beings, you or what is left of you feel more truly yourself as compared to when you were yourself. But that, of course, is an illusion. You are possessed, or liberated. This experience has various degrees. It depends on how much acid you take. Please man, surrender, you might need a chemical friend. stop spreading out ignorance, you small reincarnation of Munchhausen. Forgive me. I am just talking to myself

  102. AH said,

    October 31, 2011 at 7:05 am

    NOTE: Do not disregard my post because it is quite clearly not as articulate as many of the above posts. What people know (so to speak) is in no way correlated to their use of language. As you know true meaning cannot be expressed through language.

    Read through the original article and most of the posts. I am of the impression that the main criticism of Tolle and co. is that his message is to ‘resist nothing’ and just let everything be as it is, to be passive. In other words, do nothing about it. If that is what you think, then you have not understood. He just says to accept the situation, or to be in a state of non-resistance. And then if action is required, act. But this action will no longer come out of the conditioned mind, it will come out consciousness, presence. You will be in alignment with the intelligence of the universe, which is a far greater intelligence than the conditioned human mind. The point is, he does not say not to act.

    If you want to do something about this so-called new world order, then go ahead. But do not derive your sense of self out of it, your identity. Do not make your happiness depend on it. If you succeed, great. If not, so what, you did your best. But you will be more likely to succeed in a state of acceptance, in a state of presence, than is a state of resistance to what is.

    If this new world order is true, then IT IS. What I mean is, it is what it is, whether you like it, hate it, are indifferent to it. Accept what is, then act.

    I do not know much about the New World Order but all this stuff (CCTV, police state, authoritarianism, too many laws, you know what I mean) used to cause me a great deal of distress. My whole life was consumed by it for a couple of years. I could not even look at a police man without that anger eating away at me. I used to spend so much time looking at videos, reading articles, whatever.

    Then I discovered Tolle, and I am now free of all this crap. It is what it is and I can’t do anything about it nor do I have any intention of wasting my life on it. I do not even know fully what it is, or if it was just pure paranoia. I do not care any more. It is no way to live your life.

    My life is still shit (1 year after reading power of now twice, a new earth thrice, and listening to his audio tapes) but there has been much more peace in my life than before I found Tolle. I am not enlightened of course but things are easier than before, I have no doubt of that.


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